Episode 204
Ep. 204-The Heart of the Matter: Managing Cardiac Risks in Endurance Sports + CoreCtrl
In this episode:
Risk management isn't just for the boardrooms and stock markets; it seems to infiltrate our lives as endurance athletes too. I had a chat with Brian Dunn, a seasoned triathlete who’s been through the wringer when it comes to cardiac health. You know, just your typical 'I’m a healthy athlete, but wait, why is my heart doing the cha-cha when I’m just trying to jog?' story. We dive deep into his journey through atrial fibrillation, which sounds like a fancy term for ‘my heart decided to throw a rave without my consent.’ Brian, being the smart cookie he is, didn’t let that scare him off completely. Instead, he took it as a wake-up call to get serious about his health while still wanting to chase podiums like the rest of us. In this episode, we explore how to balance the thrill of racing with the caution of listening to our bodies—because, let’s be real, ignoring those heart palpitations is a recipe for disaster. Brian shares his experience with getting screened, managing his condition, and the importance of being proactive rather than reactive when it comes to health concerns. Spoiler alert: it's not just about the next race; it's about longevity and living our best lives. Now, let’s pivot to a little something I like to call 'the supplement saga.' We took a detour to chat about a new product called CoreCtrl, which promises to help athletes manage their thermoregulation in warm environments. You know, the kind of environment where you feel like you’re running through a sauna. The twist? It actually has some science to back its claims, which is rare in the supplement world. We dig into the nitty-gritty of taurine, the star ingredient that claims to help you sweat like a fountain. But hold on a second, before you start chugging this stuff like it’s Gatorade, we discuss the caveats. There’s a lot to unpack, including the potential for increased fluid loss and the necessity of keeping those electrolytes in check. Because let’s face it, if you’re sweating buckets and not replacing those fluids, you might just turn into a dehydrated raisin. So, if you’re considering giving CoreCtrl a shot, make sure you're ready to play the hydration game. And just when you thought we’d wrap things up, we had a heartfelt discussion about the sport itself and the sobering reality of cardiac issues in endurance athletes. We reflect on how easy it is to brush off symptoms because, you know, we’re ‘fit’ and ‘healthy,’ right? Brian’s experiences serve as a wake-up call for all of us, especially as we age and our bodies start to throw us curveballs. The takeaway? Don’t ignore your body’s signals—get those check-ups and screenings done. Because at the end of the day, it’s not just about crossing the finish line; it’s about what happens after that. So grab a protein bar, tune in, and let’s get serious about being fit and healthy, not just fit.
Segments:
[8:41]- Medical Mailbag: CoreCtrl
[38:11]- Interview: Bryan Dunn
Links
Transcript
Risk analysis is what I do for a living.
Speaker A:I'm an investment advisor, so I'm always managing people's risk.
Speaker A:And so when I look at the risk return and I figure I'm just not going to ride outdoors, it's in in the same vein, when I look at my cardiac health, whatever it may be, it needs to I need to manage it in the same way.
Speaker A:And unnecessary risks just don't make a lot of sense to me in that respect.
Speaker A:And I'm sure I can find something else that would provide me the same sort of satisfaction over time and the same health and wellbeing benefits.
Speaker B:Foreign.
Speaker C:Hello and welcome once again to the Tridock Podcast.
Speaker C:I'm your host, Jeff Zankoff.
Speaker C:The Tridock, an emergency physician, a triathlete, a multiple Ironman finisher, coming to you.
Speaker D:As always from Beautiful sunny Denver, Colorado.
Speaker C: ,: Speaker C:It is my wedding anniversary and so I want to w my beautiful wife Sandra.
Speaker C:A wonderful and fantastic 27th wedding anniversary.
Speaker D:Happy anniversary, my love.
Speaker C:And to all of my listeners, I want to acknowledge that we have an interview again for this episode.
Speaker C:The voice that you heard at the beginning of the episode was that of my guest on this very podcast.
Speaker C:It is a listener.
Speaker C:It is a friend of mine.
Speaker C:It is somebody who has been on this podcast once before and it is somebody who was a appalled, I dare say that I didn't have a guest on the last episode.
Speaker C:Brian Dunn, a friend of the podcast for a very long time, stepped up to the plate and shared with me that he felt like he had a story that listeners would like to hear.
Speaker C:And I fully concur.
Speaker C:And so Brian came on and is here to tell his story of how he has dealt with some cardiac issues over the last several years and how he approaches training and racing with the understanding that as he gets older, this is something that he has to face and something that that many of us as growing older as we do in endurance sport, something that we hear all the time with cardiac issues causing problems in the swim, for example.
Speaker C:Brian is very aware of this as a possibility.
Speaker C:He actually went to try and be preventative in getting things assessed and ended up having issues on the very day that he was supposed to get things checked out.
Speaker C:So have a listen to Brian's story.
Speaker C:I think you'll find it quite informational and entertaining and Brian's just always a great guy to chat with and I he did a great job on this telling his story and I think that you will enjoy it.
Speaker C:And that's coming up later.
Speaker C:I also want to acknowledge all of the people who reached out by email, through the Facebook page and through messenger and all the different ways you can contact me who came up with their own suggestions for interviewees.
Speaker C:And I have followed up on all of the recommendations that were made to me.
Speaker C:And I have several interviews coming up on the next few episodes because of you, my listeners.
Speaker C:So I am, as always, incredibly grateful, always so happy to see how engaged my listeners are.
Speaker C:And I will let you know if the well is running dry on interviews in the future.
Speaker C:I definitely will come back to you because you guys were so good and helpful in coming up with just terrific suggestions for some really interesting interviews that are going to be coming up on the episodes that follow this one.
Speaker C:Before we get to Brian's interview, we will have a medical mailbag on a supplement, a product called Core Control.
Speaker C:It is a product that Alistair Brownlee is affiliated with as a spokesperson, and I think he actually, actually has an ownership stake in the company that makes it.
Speaker C:And it's a supplement that promises to help you manage your thermodynamics as you go to race in warm environments.
Speaker C:This is a product that I dare say is one of the few that we have reviewed on this program that actually has some science to back up its claims.
Speaker C:So I'm very excited to actually have that conversation with coach Juliet Hockman coming up in just a short bit in which we will review that evidence and discuss discuss with you the claims that Core Control makes.
Speaker C:We'll talk about the caveats.
Speaker C:It's not exactly all it's cracked up to be, but for some people this may actually be a supplement of interest, something you may want to consider.
Speaker C:So have a listen.
Speaker C:That medical mailbag is coming up very shortly.
Speaker C:Before we get to that, I want to acknowledge that we are mere, what, a couple of weeks away now from the World Championships in Nice, the 70.3 worlds, and that is an event that I will be participating in.
Speaker C:I've heard from several other listeners who are going to be there.
Speaker C:I would love to have the opportunity to say hello.
Speaker C:So please let me know if your plans are going to be attending in Nice and let's make sure that we get together and at the very least we'll have a brief bonjour petatre.
Speaker C:We can share a cappuccino and a story over a croissant or something like that.
Speaker C:But definitely we want to be sure to try and get the listeners together and maybe get a photo, do the typical Instagram thing.
Speaker C:I also want to acknowledge what happened last weekend in Sweden where Matthew Marquardt sent all time North American record for Ironman distance events with a really fast 7:28 for the Ironman placing second on the day.
Speaker C:The guy just continues to just amaze.
Speaker C:I'm always a big fan of Matthew because of what he's able to accomplish as a medical student, a research student and able to just perform at the highest level as a professional.
Speaker C:This was a very stacked field and he came just out of the water, charged to the the front on the bike and got off the bike with a very accomplished runner and was able to hang on for a second, finished about a minute and a half back I believe and just had a great overall day.
Speaker C:I'm also very proud to say that Matthew rides with the initials of many cancer patients and people who have passed away from cancer on the bicycle frame of his Trek.
Speaker C:And my very own daughter Lauren, her name, her initials are on the front fork of his bike, added last year after I spoke with him on this podcast.
Speaker C:So Matthew continuing to just do what he does best heading into the really the last six weeks or so as he is preparing for his big day in Kona.
Speaker C:It'll be very exciting to see what he's able to do.
Speaker C:I look forward to cheering him on.
Speaker C:We did have some very sad news that occurred this past week.
Speaker C:We had a very just terrible collision between a car and a bicycle team, a college bicycle team and I believe it was Tennessee, where two young students lost their lives and several other are in critical condition.
Speaker C:The details of the collision are not completely clear to me, there were very little details provided in the news, but it's yet another reminder of how fragile, how quick things can change and how we have to never take things for granted.
Speaker C:Live every day to the absolute maximum.
Speaker C:And it is unfortunately yet another reminder of how cars and bikes continue to share the same space and in ways that unfortunately come to these kinds of endings.
Speaker C:And it's just a horrible situation.
Speaker C:I feel just an immense sense of loss and I can only, I can't even begin to imagine what the family and friends are going through of that small community.
Speaker C:And my heart goes out to them.
Speaker C:I don't want to dwell too much on such tragic stories.
Speaker C:I want to instead focus on the positive things that we as multi sport athletes are able to do on a.
Speaker D:Day to day basis.
Speaker C:And so please keep your friends and family close and remember when you're training that we do so for a love of life and a zest for youthfulness.
Speaker C:So keep the positive thoughts going.
Speaker C:And remember, your finish line is out there somewhere, so do whatever you can to stay safe while you are training.
Speaker C:With that said, let's move to the Medical mailbag question.
Speaker C:Core Control.
Speaker C:It's a fancy new supplement.
Speaker C:It's not really getting a ton of advertising or press.
Speaker C:The company reached out to me not that long ago to ask about guesting on the podcast as I don't do endorsements or product endorsements on the show.
Speaker C:So instead I decided to look into it from a scientific perspective myself and what did I find?
Speaker C:We'll have that assessment for you, and that's coming up right after this short break.
Speaker D:All right, we have an atmospheric medical mailbag for you this week.
Speaker D:I am coming.
Speaker D:I'm recording this while in Hilton Head, South Carolina, where it is ungodly humidity and just exceedingly warm, but that means afternoon thunder showers.
Speaker D:And so we have an ongoing thunder shower right now.
Speaker D:All of our conversation today will be punctuated with the thunderclaps and who knows, maybe some lightning in the background.
Speaker D:We'll see.
Speaker D:But all of that to say it's time for the Medical Mailbag and I am joined by the dual world champion.
Speaker B:No, I guess.
Speaker D:Yes, yes, yes, yes, yes.
Speaker D:The dual world champion newly crowned at the USAT Nationals this past weekend in.
Speaker D:Oh, I should preface.
Speaker D:So this episode is coming out on August.
Speaker D:I don't even remember the date it's coming out.
Speaker D:So we're recording this on an off week.
Speaker D:So nationals just happened, happened.
Speaker D:And we are talking.
Speaker D:But the episode will come out next week anyways.
Speaker D:You don't care about all this.
Speaker D:All you care about is hearing how well Juliet did in Wisconsin.
Speaker D:So Juliet, welcome to the podcast.
Speaker D:Once again, tell us how amazing you did on the weekend.
Speaker B:This weekend in Milwaukee was the USA Triathlon National Championships, which means three different races.
Speaker B:The Olympic distance, the regular or more traditional sprint distance, non draft and then the draft legal sprint distance and then something called mixed team relay where you have teams of two boys or two, two male, two female and it's extremely short triathlon and each person does a teeny triathlon and then hands off to the next person.
Speaker B:So we had seven life sport athletes there which was amazing.
Speaker B:And everybody just did such an extraordinary job.
Speaker B:A few in particular standout performances.
Speaker B:Best they've ever finished.
Speaker B:10 Kpr off the bike.
Speaker B:5 People got world championship spots for next year.
Speaker B:It's just so much fun.
Speaker B:And yeah, it was really great and I was pleased with my racing.
Speaker B:I raced the two sprint races.
Speaker B:So both the draft legal and the non Draft legal sprint races and then the spicks team relays and I won both sprint races which was really exciting.
Speaker B:It's been about four years since I've dipped my toe into this short course stuff.
Speaker B:Thank you.
Speaker B:So I never really know is boy do I have any fast twitch fibers left.
Speaker B:And then also on the Sunday race in the non draft legal, I was riding my road bike with clip on aero bars and I wasn't sure how that was going to play either because there is a disadvantage there with TT bikes.
Speaker B:So anyway, it worked out great.
Speaker B:It's a very well run event.
Speaker B:All you long course people out there.
Speaker B:If you went straight to long course when you first started triathlon and you've never done a short course event.
Speaker B:These USAT National Championships are extremely well run.
Speaker B:There are 4,500 athletes there.
Speaker E:So lots of.
Speaker D:That's incredible.
Speaker B:It's a lot of athletes.
Speaker B:Everything runs very smoothly.
Speaker B:It's just a good group and the people are super friendly and it's a huge range.
Speaker B:There's 16 year olds up to 80 plus year olds.
Speaker B:It's just really neat.
Speaker B:It's really fun.
Speaker D:I'm always surprised about where they put these events.
Speaker D:They seem to put them in weird places and places that are susceptible to as.
Speaker D:As you told me you had this afternoon thunder shower roll in which is common for that part of the world.
Speaker D:So I'm always surprised where they do this.
Speaker D:I don't know, maybe it's a bidding system and.
Speaker D:Yeah, I don't really know.
Speaker B:I think it is a bidding system.
Speaker B:They obviously have to have a place that can accommodate 4 to 5,000 athletes plus their families.
Speaker B:They probably prefer to have places that are fairly centrally located.
Speaker B:I was a bit dubious about Milwaukee to be honest.
Speaker B:I thought Milwaukee.
Speaker B:But the course was fantastic for this type of racing.
Speaker B:It wasn't exciting.
Speaker B:It was pretty much on a highway.
Speaker B:But then it did go through a park.
Speaker B:There wasn't anything sort of bucolic or even iconic about it, but it just worked to crank through these age groups.
Speaker B:The swimming was on a lagoon, it was very compact.
Speaker B:So it just.
Speaker B:It worked to crank through that many people and it was easy to spectate, which is nice because I did spectate the Olympic distance race.
Speaker B:So yeah, next year it's in Iowa.
Speaker D:Oh gosh, we're in Iowa.
Speaker B:Near Des Moines I think.
Speaker D:So that's fascinating.
Speaker D:So I was in Des Moines.
Speaker D:As for AAUD and Des Moines is.
Speaker D:It's an interesting city.
Speaker D:I was.
Speaker D:It's very quiet, very quiet city.
Speaker D:But it does have a big University there, Drake University.
Speaker D:And I was actually saying to my wife, I was like, gosh, this would be a really good place for 70.3 or some kind of triathlon because they've got a river, they, they have beautiful parks and bike lanes and everything else.
Speaker D:And it's quiet city, lots of hotels.
Speaker D:And they had this AAU event which had thousands of athletes.
Speaker D:So they clearly have the ability to do this.
Speaker D:The only problem is the weather.
Speaker D:The weather is just ungodly hot and humid.
Speaker D:And so again, you're going to a place that is going to be very uncomfortable and have the threat of thunder showers all the time.
Speaker D:The AAU events were constantly under weather advisories.
Speaker D:Now the one thing about the USAT events is they do take place in the mornings.
Speaker D:Were they over pretty much by noon most days?
Speaker B:The first day, the draft legal sprint day?
Speaker B:No, I didn't even start until noon.
Speaker B:It was a very late start.
Speaker B: e thunderstorm broke at about: Speaker B:So people were finished.
Speaker B:They were still mulling about getting their stuff out of transition and they evacuated the race site incredibly fast because lightning was all over the place.
Speaker B:Right.
Speaker B:Some people who were late to get their bikes had to go back and get them, but still it was fine.
Speaker B:But last year for this event, because they do it two years in one city, the entire sprint race day on Sunday was canceled because.
Speaker D:Right, I remember that flooding.
Speaker B:Yeah, exactly.
Speaker B:But it's always fun.
Speaker B:I've lived on the coasts most of my life and it's always fun to go to Milwaukee and get an impression on a sort of mid sized Midwest city.
Speaker D:Yeah, Milwaukee's a nice city.
Speaker B:It was really fun.
Speaker B:It was very.
Speaker B:So empty.
Speaker B:It was incredibly empty and there's nobody there.
Speaker B:I would, I scootered and rode my bike straight down the middle of these streets.
Speaker B:Lots of public art, lots of public places.
Speaker B:Parks, theaters, museums, but terrible road quality.
Speaker B:It's just funny.
Speaker B:Anyway, I just, I really enjoyed it and I wish I'd been able to party a little bit more because I had brats and beer and I wanted to have brats and beer, but I couldn't really have brats and beer.
Speaker D:Next up, you're going to Hamburg.
Speaker D:You could have brats and beer.
Speaker B:Yes, I can have brats and beer and homboard.
Speaker B:That's right.
Speaker B:That's right.
Speaker D:Awesome.
Speaker D:That's super exciting.
Speaker D:Congratulations again and congratulations to all the life sport athletes and all the other athletes who may have had good days out there.
Speaker D:We'd love to hear from you.
Speaker D:Why don't you head on over to the Life to Life Support to the Tridoc podcast, private Facebook group.
Speaker D:We'd love to hear your experiences.
Speaker D:Did you participate at the short course nationals?
Speaker D:What was your experience like?
Speaker D:Did you have a great time out there?
Speaker D:And.
Speaker D:Yeah, just tell us your experience.
Speaker D:We have a medical mailbag.
Speaker D:It's not so much a question as really something that came to me as an email.
Speaker D:And so we wanted to pursue it as something to explore.
Speaker D:So, Juliet, what are we going to be looking at on today's episode?
Speaker B:Yeah, this is very topical, not only for where you are right now in terms of the climate, but also, as we think about just one short year from now, it will be 70.3 worlds in Chattanooga and everybody's talking about how hot it's going to be.
Speaker D:Yeah.
Speaker B:So neat that this came across the transom.
Speaker B:This is a product called Core Control and it claims to help athletes better prepare for hot races.
Speaker B:And from what I understand from what you've told me, they reached out to you and said, hey, can we come on your show and talk about this?
Speaker B:But you're a totally impartial podcast.
Speaker B:And so you said, no, but we will look at it.
Speaker B:And so you and your team took a look at it and I'm really excited to hear about what the results were.
Speaker B:So what did you guys find out?
Speaker D:Yeah, so Sarah Lopez, intern extraordinaire, who looked into this, she was pretty excited because she started our discussion by saying, I was so excited because finally I found something that actually has science to back up their claims.
Speaker D:And so right away I was like, oh, do tell.
Speaker D:It's so unusual that we get something on the program that we can say, you know what, they actually do have something there.
Speaker D:And I want to put it.
Speaker D:I think the TLDR take home from this is that Core Control does not make outsized claims on their website.
Speaker D:What they say is backed up by science.
Speaker D:So that's great.
Speaker D:But there are some significant caveats as to whether or not you can really get the kind of benefits that they are suggesting are possible with their supplements.
Speaker D:So that's sort of the short version, but let's dig into it a little bit.
Speaker D:The main component and the main sort of thing within their supplement that they are claiming will benefit you is something that I'm sure most of you have heard of and it is called taurine and it is a non proteinogenic amino acid.
Speaker D:So what I mean by that is taurine is an Amino acid.
Speaker D:It's found widely distributed in our tissues, in our bodies, already naturally occurring, but it doesn't.
Speaker D:It's not taken up and not one of the building blocks of protein like so many other amino acids are.
Speaker D:Does taurine ring a bell for you?
Speaker D:Do you know where you can find taurine commercially?
Speaker B:It's the chemical in the pool that stops it from when someone pees.
Speaker D:That would be chlorine.
Speaker D:That's chlorine.
Speaker D:Taurine with a T. Taurine with a T is the component that is found in Red Bull.
Speaker D:Yeah.
Speaker D:So Red Bull, I've never ever in.
Speaker B:My life had, so I have no idea.
Speaker D:And it's found in a lot of energy drinks.
Speaker D:But Red Bull, I think, was the first one that really gave large quantities of taurine.
Speaker D:So a can of Red Bull has about a gram, a thousand milligrams of taurine.
Speaker D:And it's not for this specific purpose.
Speaker D:It's because they've always claimed, oh, taurine is.
Speaker D:It's good for you, it's.
Speaker D:It gives you energy, it's an antioxidant, blah, blah, blah.
Speaker D:And there's been an increasing sort of body of evidence and science that has looked at taurine for other reasons within the endurance community, specifically looking at how it has an impact on the ability for the body to dissipate heat.
Speaker D:And the way that taurine seems to have this impact is on its effect on the sweat glands.
Speaker D:So it turns out that taurine in.
Speaker D:In large quantities, and I'm talking large.
Speaker D:So I said that a can of Red Bull is a thousand milligrams.
Speaker D:One packet of the core control, which is a.
Speaker D:It's like a powder that you mix into a water and make a drink out of.
Speaker D:It contains 4,000 milligrams.
Speaker D:So it's four times what you would get in one can.
Speaker D:Now, the other stuff that that Red Bull has is like caffeine and a few other components that's not in the core control.
Speaker D:Core control has basically large amounts of taurine along with electrolytes.
Speaker D:Okay.
Speaker D:So taurine has been in these kinds of amounts, especially when taken over an extended period of time.
Speaker D:It has to be taken for several days in a row.
Speaker D:It' your tissues allows or causes sweat glands to produce more sweat to per sweat gland.
Speaker D:It actually activates sweat glands so that sweat glands that normally wouldn't produce sweat start producing sweat and will do so at lower temperatures.
Speaker D:So basically that's how this stuff works.
Speaker D:The idea is that you saturate your tissues with taurine, you will start sweating earlier, you will sweat significantly more and you'll sweat from places where you haven't sweat normally.
Speaker D:And so basically you become a hot, sweaty mess.
Speaker D:But the idea is that you are enhancing your ability to cool through evaporative cooling.
Speaker D:So just a reminder, the whole reason sweat works is because sweat comes onto your skin.
Speaker D:You shift your blood from your core to your skin.
Speaker D:When you're very hot, you become blushed.
Speaker D:The reason for that is because all the capillaries in your skin are dilating.
Speaker D:Blood is going to your skin to basically shed heat to the atmosphere.
Speaker D:And that ability to shed heat is enhanced by the evaporation of sweat that is on the skin.
Speaker D:So already you can probably anticipate one of the limitations of this.
Speaker D:Can you think of that?
Speaker B:Well, I can think that I'm just.
Speaker B:I'm stuck about two minutes ago on, as a menopausal woman who.
Speaker B:I don't wanna sweat any more than I already do.
Speaker B:I don't wanna be a hot, sweaty mask, thank you very much.
Speaker D:But when we talk about heat acclimation, we talk about like sauna work or any of those things.
Speaker D:That's what you're doing.
Speaker D:You're teaching your body to sweat earlier.
Speaker D:You're teaching your body to sweat more.
Speaker D:Core control is basically doing this without doing the sauna.
Speaker D:So it's the same thing.
Speaker D:So that is a good thing.
Speaker D:Okay.
Speaker D:The problem is, and this is the problem is that evaporative cooling only works when you have efficient evaporation.
Speaker D:So here I am in Hilton Head.
Speaker D:I went for a run this morning, got up at 6am it's already 88 degrees and 100% humidity.
Speaker D:Sweat doesn't evaporate in that situation.
Speaker D:It's too humid.
Speaker D:The air is so filled with moisture that sweat is not coming off your body.
Speaker D:It's just sitting there.
Speaker D:So your clothes become wet, you become wet.
Speaker D:But because the sweat doesn't evaporate, you could sweat all you want.
Speaker D:If you enhance your sweating, it's great.
Speaker D:But because the sweat is not evaporating, it's not contributing to cooling you.
Speaker D:So if you go to Hawaii, if you go to Florida, if you go to Chattanooga, all these places that are very humid, if you get your body to sweat more, you are doing nothing to actually cool yourself more efficiently.
Speaker D:Now, the heat acclimation protocols, the sauna, the things like that, they work in different ways.
Speaker D:They actually work to make your body more adaptive to the heat.
Speaker D:They increase your total body extracellular fluid.
Speaker D:They increase your set point for temperature, so you actually become more comfortable at a higher set point.
Speaker D:So the sauna protocols actually do more than does this product.
Speaker D:This product's claim to fame and the thing that this product says that it can do is just make you sweat more.
Speaker D:That's it.
Speaker D:It doesn't change any of those other things that the sauna does.
Speaker D:But the question now is, okay, what does the science say?
Speaker D:Does the science back up their claims?
Speaker D:And you know what?
Speaker D:It does.
Speaker D:We were stunned to find out that the science is solid and it really does.
Speaker D:So let's look at some of the studies.
Speaker D:2024 European Journal of Applied Physiology, Peel and other authors looking at and this is citation straight off the website.
Speaker D:Basically they're using this citation for their marketing to randomized controlled trial, double blind placebo, controlled crossover so that patients work as their own control.
Speaker D:And a very small study, 12 men, three women, they had an eight day loading period of 4,000 grams per day.
Speaker D:Sorry, 4,000 milligrams.
Speaker D:4,000 Grams would be a lot.
Speaker D:4,000 Milligrams per day.
Speaker D:And they did this for eight days.
Speaker D:And then they had a treadmill walking at fixed heat production followed by treadmill walking in a ramped humidity.
Speaker D:So this is a low effort exercise, not really comparable to what we do in a triathlon, but still what they were looking for was they were assessing for whole body sweat loss, local sweat rates, sweat gland activation, core temperature, things like that.
Speaker D:What they found whole body sweat loss increased by 27%.
Speaker C:Wow.
Speaker D:So really impressive heat conservation.
Speaker D:Evaporative heat loss was improved by 27% and heat storage within the tissues decreased by 72%.
Speaker D:But because these people were not exercising at a very high rate, their core temperature didn't really change, they didn't really raise their core temperature.
Speaker D:So it's not surprising that we didn't see anything here.
Speaker D:So improved thermoregulation is not really claimed by this study, but the ability to improve sweating is dramatic.
Speaker D:Very dramatic and definitely something here.
Speaker D: Next study,: Speaker D:Excuse me.
Speaker D:This is a dose sort of precursor study where they were trying to test about what kind of dose you needed.
Speaker D:And they were able to show that using the same kind of loading of 4 grams per day over eight days, had people cycling at their ventilatory threshold and doing a time to exhaustion test.
Speaker D:They were actually again able to show that sweat rates improved by 13%.
Speaker D:They showed that core temperature was improved in this case by not a lot, but about half a degree, which is 38.1 versus 38.5.
Speaker D:It's not nothing.
Speaker B:Yep.
Speaker D:And then time to exhaustion, 10%.
Speaker D:So improved by 10%.
Speaker D:That.
Speaker D:That's, again, that's.
Speaker D:Clint.
Speaker C:That's both.
Speaker D:That's a number that's statistical, but also, I think clinically important as well.
Speaker D:So all of these are, I think, really big things.
Speaker D:2021, Journal of International Societies for Nutrition.
Speaker D:A systematic review of 19 studies.
Speaker D: his time, and this is back in: Speaker D:But again, I think we've had more studies since then.
Speaker D:2026, A study showing that taurine was a little more limited in its effect, but they weren't looking specifically at sweating.
Speaker D:They were looking at power production.
Speaker D:They were looking at actual performance.
Speaker D:And they found that there was no significant effect of adding taurine to strength, power, or anaerobic capacity, suggesting that while sweating is improved, it doesn't actually have a direct impact on endurance performance.
Speaker D:I think that's important.
Speaker D:I think that's important.
Speaker D:And I want to be very fair to core control.
Speaker D:At no point do they say on their website that taking this product is going to improve your ability to perform.
Speaker D:What they say is maximize your fitness, the fitness that you have built by sweating more and cooling yourself more efficiently.
Speaker D:And I give them full props for that.
Speaker D:You know, like so often we see these supplement makers say, oh, just take our product and you're going to be so much better.
Speaker D:That is not what they're saying.
Speaker D:They're saying you have done the hard work, you've got the fitness.
Speaker D:Why not maximize your ability to use that fitness in hot environments by improving your sweating by using this product, which I think is brilliant.
Speaker D:Good for them.
Speaker B:Okay, okay, okay.
Speaker D:Now we're going to get into some of the caveats, because there are some caveats and there's important ones.
Speaker D:2025 European Journal of Sports Science.
Speaker D:Caffeine and Taurine co ingestion.
Speaker D:And this is a big one, folks.
Speaker B:Okay.
Speaker D:If you take caffeine and taurine together, the caffeine negates the effects of the taurine.
Speaker D:Oh, okay.
Speaker D:Wipes out the benefits of the sweating.
Speaker D:Now, did you drink any coffee before your races?
Speaker B:Yeah, that's the thing.
Speaker B:We haven't.
Speaker B:You haven't disclosed yet how this product gets used?
Speaker B:Let's say an athlete is preparing for a very hot race.
Speaker B:Do they use it for one week straight?
Speaker B:Two Weeks out, like a protocol, eight.
Speaker D:Days leading up to the race, leading up to.
Speaker B:So even right up to the day before the race.
Speaker B:So basically.
Speaker B:Okay, okay, yeah.
Speaker D:And we know the benefits of caffeine, right?
Speaker D: hat in this particular study,: Speaker D:So that's a lot more than a cup of coffee.
Speaker B:Yeah, three and a half.
Speaker D:Yeah, so that's.
Speaker D:Yeah, that's a lot more than a cup of coffee.
Speaker D:But it's.
Speaker D:So we don't know if just a cup of coffee is going to negate the effects of taurine.
Speaker D:But even if it negates the effects, it is important.
Speaker B:Important.
Speaker D:So if it tempers the effects, Right, Because I don't know too many people that are going to want to take away the caffeine effect in, in the hopes that the taurine effect is somehow going to make up for it.
Speaker D:Because we see the taurine doesn't improve performance, it just improves your sweating.
Speaker D:That 10% bonus I saw on the to exhaustion that we saw in the cycling is seems to me to be not a result from the taurine improving performance, but just because they were able to keep their core temperature down and therefore able to cycle longer.
Speaker D:So, okay, okay.
Speaker D:Safety data.
Speaker D:A couple of different studies looked at safety data and found that this was safe.
Speaker D:It's not banned by WADA at this point.
Speaker D:And yeah, just it's really nice to find a product that doesn't oversell itself, that has science to back up its claims and that seems to be beneficial in the ways that it says it is.
Speaker D:Now I do want to get to the negatives.
Speaker D:Not negatives, but just a caveat.
Speaker D:So look, does this stuff work?
Speaker D:I think it definitely does what it says it does, which is that by taking eight days, and by the way, it's $35 for an eight day supply, it is packed with all kinds of electrolytes, which is not useful because what they're saying is if you take this stuff, you're going to be sweating a lot, therefore you're going to sweat out, you're going to need more salt, you're going to need more magnesium, because if you don't have salt and magnesium, you're not going to sweat because your sweat glands will not produce sweat unless you have the electrolytes and the fluid to manage that sweat.
Speaker D:Which means if you're sweating 27% more, just think about how much more salt and how much more fluid you need to take during your race.
Speaker B:Right.
Speaker D:So that's a big bump.
Speaker D:Now, you can't load salt and fluid before a race.
Speaker D:All of the salt you take that's in excess, you're just going to pee it out.
Speaker D:So putting all these electrolytes in these packets for eight days, that's a waste, and that's a waste of money.
Speaker D:You're just peeing it out anyways.
Speaker D:Okay, but $35 for eight days of this stuff.
Speaker D:If you wanted to take the taurine in the form of a Red Bull, a Red Bull would actually end up costing you $10 a day to get the same amount of taurine.
Speaker D:So it would be more.
Speaker D:So this is actually a more cost effective way of getting the taurine.
Speaker D:The electrolytes, like I said, kind of useless.
Speaker D:But the negatives are okay.
Speaker D:It's going to make you sweat more.
Speaker D:But are you going to a place where that sweat is going to lead to evaporative cooling if you're racing in Boulder?
Speaker D:Absolutely.
Speaker D:Sweating more is probably helpful, but you're losing a ton of fluid when you race at high altitude.
Speaker D:Right?
Speaker D:We know that already.
Speaker D:You're already you're breathing out liquid at a higher rate.
Speaker D:You're losing it from just evaporative cooling because it's so dry.
Speaker D:And now if you're going to increase your sweating by 25%, the amount of fluid you have to take in to make sure you don't get dehydrated and are able to perform just went up by 25%.
Speaker D:That's a big increase.
Speaker D:And just think how hard it is to drink that much fluid already.
Speaker D:And now you gotta increase it by 25%.
Speaker D:That's a lot.
Speaker B:Yeah.
Speaker D:Salt as well.
Speaker D:Okay.
Speaker D:We've talked in the past about how we don't want to take too much salt.
Speaker D:If you're going to do this, you got to take a lot more salt.
Speaker D:A lot more salt.
Speaker D:Because in order to keep yourself sweating, in order to keep yourself in balance, you do have to take a lot more salt.
Speaker D:And then the other negative is clothing.
Speaker D:If you're not wearing clothing that's going to allow that sweat to evaporate, then you've lost.
Speaker D:It's not benefiting you at all.
Speaker D:And we already know that there are a lot of fabrics that will soak up your sweat but won't let it evaporate, in which case it's not particularly helpful.
Speaker D:And then the final negative is the caffeine effect, which, taken in sum, these are important considerations to me.
Speaker D:The big One is the amount of fluid you have to take to allow for this to work.
Speaker D:And that, to me, is a killer because I know how much I drink in a race in Boulder, and for me to ramp that up by another 25% would be really hard.
Speaker B:I wonder if we're narrowing the scope of races for which this might be beneficial.
Speaker B:Something like a St. George, which isn't as high.
Speaker B:They don't hold it in there anymore, of course.
Speaker C:Oregon.
Speaker D:Oregon.
Speaker D:Oregon wasn't that humid.
Speaker D:I think Oregon would be a good example.
Speaker D:Example where this was not that hot there and.
Speaker B:Or Northern California, the new one in Northern California.
Speaker D:That's going to be dry, right?
Speaker B:Yeah.
Speaker B:So anything that's in more of a high desert or desert climate is going to be.
Speaker B:But you've still got the negative, you've still got the problem of the caffeine,.
Speaker D:And you've got the problem of just being able to get enough fluid in to make up for these losses.
Speaker D:It's a big deal.
Speaker D:Now, I don't have any experience with the product.
Speaker D:I can't say for sure, like, how much of a deal it is, but.
Speaker D:But when you're telling me you're showing me papers that show 26% increase in sweating and we know.
Speaker D:I hear from people all the time, oh, I sweat so much.
Speaker D:Just imagine increasing the amount of sweat by 26%.
Speaker D:That's a lot.
Speaker D:That's a lot of fluid.
Speaker D:That's a lot of salt.
Speaker D:And keeping on top of that, you just have to think, is this gonna come out in the wash?
Speaker D:Nope.
Speaker D:No pun intended.
Speaker D:But I want to be very clear, and this is really important.
Speaker D:This is a supplement, Core Control by Trufuels, that does exactly what it advertises itself to do.
Speaker D:It has science to back up all of their claims.
Speaker D:I give them a hundred percent props for not overselling their claims.
Speaker D:I think that this is.
Speaker D:This is the gold standard for supplements that we have reviewed on this podcast.
Speaker D:And every supplement that comes after this is going to be compared to these guys because, oh, I am hugely impressed with them.
Speaker E:Them.
Speaker D:The only thing is, despite all of that, it's still not something that I would use personally because of the limitations.
Speaker D:But I do think there are going to be people listening to this who may think that this is worth a try.
Speaker D:And I would say 100% they should try it.
Speaker D:And I want to hear what their experience is, because I think it's.
Speaker D:I think it's worthy of a try for some people.
Speaker B:Most Heat protocols will start two weeks out from a race and will end one week before a race.
Speaker B:If you're going to set up your trainer in the bathroom, for example, and really absorb that, or even if you can only even get to the sauna, that's all you can manage because you don't have a setup that will work.
Speaker B:So why couldn't you run this protocol the same way and start it two weeks out, finish it a week out, so you can still have the caffeine effects.
Speaker B:You can perhaps reduce.
Speaker B:Why won't it work?
Speaker D:Because the taurine will go.
Speaker D:You have to saturate your tissues.
Speaker D:It's all about the taurine getting to the right levels in your tissues.
Speaker D:And it clears pretty quickly.
Speaker D:I. I didn't.
Speaker D:We did not come across any studies that looked at how fast the taurine dissipates.
Speaker D:We didn't come across any studies that talked about how long the effects last.
Speaker D:But all the protocols talk about eight days ending on your race day.
Speaker D:So you really have to be doing this right up to your race day.
Speaker D:So I think it's super fascinating.
Speaker D:I think it's really interesting.
Speaker D:I'm definitely interested in hearing.
Speaker D:If anybody tries it.
Speaker D:I want to hear how it goes.
Speaker D:I don't think this is for me because I'm a person who already sweats a lot.
Speaker D:I could not afford to sweat more because I would never be able to keep up with the fluids and salt.
Speaker B:So, AI says taurine clears your system in six and a half hours.
Speaker D:Yeah.
Speaker D:So that's the issue.
Speaker D:Right.
Speaker A:Fast.
Speaker D:Yeah.
Speaker D:So you've really got to load it and then you've got to load it and have it on board for the time of the race.
Speaker D:So there you go.
Speaker B:Interesting.
Speaker D:I think this is great.
Speaker D:I think this is great.
Speaker D:I props again to Trufuels.
Speaker D:I give you my tip of the cap and they're gonna get my Tradoc podcast gold standard award for supplement.
Speaker D:So good going, guys.
Speaker B:I wonder how the athletes who have.
Speaker B:Or at least who claim to use this.
Speaker B:Cause there's a host of professional athletes on their website that say that they use it.
Speaker B:I wonder how they manage all of those different challenges about the caffeine, about the.
Speaker D:Alistair Oster doesn't race anymore.
Speaker D:Brownlee.
Speaker B:Well, that's true.
Speaker B:Yeah, he's on there.
Speaker B:Interesting.
Speaker B:Yeah, I don't.
Speaker B:I'd be interesting to hear from one of them, too.
Speaker B:How do you manage these and the drawbacks.
Speaker D:Yeah, perfect.
Speaker D:All right.
Speaker D:That is a. I think, a resounding positive for this supplement, the first one I think we've ever really done.
Speaker D:But I do want to again give them props.
Speaker D:And I do want to also say once again, if you have a question for us, we've had quite a few coming in.
Speaker D:After last week when we or after our last episode when we didn't have an interview.
Speaker D:I've had a bunch of people come forward with suggestions for interviews.
Speaker D:So thank you for that.
Speaker D:We will be following up on all of those and if you have a question, please do send it our way.
Speaker D:You can email us tridocicloud.com head on over to the Tridoc Podcast Facebook group.
Speaker D:If you're not a member, please do search for it.
Speaker D:Answer the three easy questions will gain you admittance and we'd love to see you join the conversation.
Speaker D:Tell us about your use of this product, tell us about your involvement at USAT Nationals, send Juliet a kudos and a congratulations on her accomplishments and give us your questions for future medical mailbags until the next episode.
Speaker D:Juliette, thanks so much as always for being here.
Speaker D:It's always a pleasure and we'll look forward to chatting again in a couple weeks time.
Speaker B:Thank you.
Speaker D:Jeff.
Speaker B:Woo.
Speaker D:My guest on the program is a longtime listener, a friend of mine, somebody who I came to meet by virtue of this program.
Speaker D:Actually he has been on the program once before to talk about the 70.3 race that used to take place in his hometown in Phoenix, but he is here now as a guest as I made a call last episode when I mentioned I didn't have an interview lined up and he said I'd love to come on and talk about my story.
Speaker D:And and he's right.
Speaker D:He's got a great story.
Speaker D:He's got a story that's very relevant to, I think a lot of listeners.
Speaker D:And so Brian Dunn is a very successful age group triathlete, been on a podium many times, depths above me in many races as we have frequently shared the same age group and I have had the great pleasure of racing with him at World Championships before as well as I believe we cross fast and kona, I think.
Speaker D:And no, no, we were different years, okay.
Speaker D:But we have shared race courses several times and it's always a pleasure when that happens.
Speaker D:But we chat and text pretty frequently and so it's a great pleasure to have Brian as a guest on the TR podcast.
Speaker D:Brian Dunn, thank you so much for joining me today and being willing to share your story as an age group athlete in their, shall we say, sixth decade.
Speaker D:We won't go any further than that, Brian.
Speaker D:Just why don't you give the listeners a little bit of an idea of who you are and how long you've been doing multisport.
Speaker A:I have to say that you and I first met unofficially on the podium at La Quinta.
Speaker D:That's right.
Speaker A:Many years ago.
Speaker A:We didn't know each other, but we were both standing up there and I have the photograph to prove it.
Speaker D:That's right.
Speaker D:Me too.
Speaker A:Yeah.
Speaker A:I'm a 57 year old age grouper out of Scottsdale, Arizona.
Speaker A: n distance events since about: Speaker A:That's when I started my career in triathlon.
Speaker A:When I was in the 35 to 39 year old age groups.
Speaker A:I was a little bit late coming to the sport.
Speaker A: in Kona for her age group in: Speaker D:Wow.
Speaker A:So, yeah.
Speaker A:So when it comes to endurance sport, I was born on third.
Speaker A:I did not hit a triple.
Speaker A:Thank you, mom.
Speaker D:Yeah.
Speaker A: o Arizona with my wife around: Speaker A:So it's been a big part of my life.
Speaker A:And when you reach when you were looking for topics to discuss on this particular podcast, the doc podcast, which I really just have found so valuable in so many different ways.
Speaker A:So I can't thank you enough for producing the show and keeping it going.
Speaker A:One of the issues I think that a lot of us older men have to deal with are cardiac issues, often undiagnosed cardiac issues, which can become very problematic if not addressed.
Speaker A:So basically When I was 49, about turn 50, I went, reached out to a cardiologist to have a complete workup done.
Speaker A:I wanted to do an echo stress.
Speaker A:I wanted them to image my heart.
Speaker A:I wanted to make sure that my heart wasn't too enlarged, that my valves were working properly, not regurgitating.
Speaker A:All of these sort of things that an endurance athlete who feels that they're very fit can have occurring within them that they're not aware of that can be very problematic for the proper functioning of the heart.
Speaker A:So this was just to give myself a little peace of mind.
Speaker A:I went in, raced Santa Rosa 70.3.
Speaker A: This would have been around: Speaker A:We came back to Arizona.
Speaker A:It was probably late July.
Speaker A:I got back to training on a Monday or Tuesday and I went for a run early in the morning and I noticed that my heart rate was abnormally high and it, it shot up very quickly from when I started running.
Speaker A:I attributed it to simply lingering fatigue from the race.
Speaker A:I figure it's Hot.
Speaker A:It's Arizona in July and August.
Speaker A:I'm probably just responding to the environment a little bit.
Speaker A:But it was unusual and it was worth noting.
Speaker A:I coincidentally had my cardiologist appointment scheduled for later that week.
Speaker A:So I showed you.
Speaker D:So this was all before you were going to see the cardiologist to get screened.
Speaker D:This happened.
Speaker A:I made the appointments, I was all set.
Speaker A:And so I show up at the cardiologist's office and before doing any of the testing, they put me on an ekg and the doctor walked in and said, you're an afib.
Speaker A:And I said, I'm what?
Speaker A:Because I had no idea.
Speaker A:When I was just sitting around, I didn't notice anything.
Speaker A:I didn't feel the fluttering.
Speaker A:I didn't feel anything in my chest.
Speaker A:I just did.
Speaker A:I told him my, hey, I did go for a run.
Speaker A:I noticed my heart rate was really high and I thought that was very strange.
Speaker A:He said, yeah, you're, you are in afib.
Speaker A:So they treated me for the afib.
Speaker A:They put me on the eliquis and unfortunately took.
Speaker A:After about two months, I was still in afib.
Speaker A:I just didn't naturally convert.
Speaker A:So I wanted to carry on with my life and I didn't want to be on these medications anymore.
Speaker A:So I asked to have a cardioversion done, which is the procedure where they basically knock you out and zap you with the paddles and put you back into normal sinus rhythm.
Speaker A:So I went into the hospital and they did and I was fine.
Speaker A:And then we did the cardiac and they imaged my heart and they did all of the things that I had wanted to do.
Speaker A:And the results were, your heart is large, but not enlarge.
Speaker A:It wasn't alarmingly large.
Speaker A:The thickness of the walls of my heart were not a problem.
Speaker A:My valves were working well.
Speaker A:There was a slight regurgitation in one of them, but nothing alarming.
Speaker A:So they said, you look good.
Speaker A:Just the afib is maybe it's a one off deal.
Speaker A:Maybe you'll never have it happen again.
Speaker A:Obviously, I believe, and you can correct me, that afib can be a result of an enlarged ventricle or that enlarged ventricles can cause afib or afib.
Speaker D:Yeah.
Speaker D:So let me cut in here for a second, Brian, and just explain for people who may, may have gotten a little bit lost in all of this, because I understand everything you're saying, but I want to break it down for people.
Speaker D:So normally our hearts have an electrical system in which the sinus node, which exists within the atrium.
Speaker D:So your heart has four chambers, two atrium, two ventricles.
Speaker D:There is a left side of your heart, so you have a left atria, a left ventricle, and a right side of your heart, the right atrium and the right ventricle.
Speaker D:And the sinus node normally is where there is this kind of pacemaker for your heart.
Speaker D:And it sends off an electrical pulse that causes the atria to contract, and then soon after that, the ventricles will contract.
Speaker D:And under normal circumstances, everything is very tightly coordinated and regulated.
Speaker D:There can be certain circumstances.
Speaker D:There are a host of different reasons for it.
Speaker D:The most common reason these days is high blood pressure.
Speaker D:Over very long periods of time, you end up with thickening of the left ventricle and eventually enlargement of the atria as well.
Speaker D:And as the atrial wall stretches, the sinus node can become distorted, and you end up with a loss of normal functioning of the sinus node.
Speaker D:And so instead of having the nice normal pacing of that rhythm of that pacemaker, you end up with electrical signals coming very helter skelter from all over the atria.
Speaker D:And so the atria, instead of contracting in a normal way, will do what's called fibrillating.
Speaker D:And so they basically just quiver.
Speaker D:So the atria don't actually contract in a coordinated fashion.
Speaker D:This isn't a huge problem, at least initially.
Speaker D:But all of that electrical activity in the atria, which are just quivering, are bombarding what's called the AV node, the atrioventricular node, which is basically the pathway for electrical signals to get to the ventricles.
Speaker D:Now, if the AV node is working properly, the AV node is going to block most of that electrical activity.
Speaker D:And so the ventricles will only contract a certain amount of times.
Speaker D:Some of the electrical activity will get through, but you will have a higher heart rate, which is what Brian sensed.
Speaker D:He sensed his heart rate was very high because all of this fibrillation, all of this quivering of the atria, which is basically continuous electrical discharges, a lot of it was getting through.
Speaker D:His ventricles were contracting probably 120, 130, whatever it was.
Speaker D:And so his ventricles were contracting at that very high rate.
Speaker D:He mentioned that when he went in and got an electrocardiogram, we could see an absence of what are called P waves.
Speaker D:P waves are the atria contracting on the cardiogram.
Speaker D:And we could see also that his heart rate was very irregularly irregular, which happens in atrial fibrillation.
Speaker D:And so we could make the diagnosis of atrial fibrillation.
Speaker D:The issue with atrial fibrillation is when the atria don't have a coordinated contraction.
Speaker D:Blood tends to pool in the atria and clots can form.
Speaker D:And those clots forming in the atria can be absolutely devastating bleeding.
Speaker D:If they form on the right side of the heart, they can go to the lungs and cause what are called pulmonary emboli, which are potentially fatal.
Speaker D:If they form on the left side of the heart, which is much more common, then they go to the left ventricle and then out into the circulation, where they can cause all kinds of catastrophic things, most worrisome strokes.
Speaker D:So that's why we put people on anticoagulation.
Speaker D:Eliquis is an example of a drug that thins the blood or makes you less likely to clot lot.
Speaker D:And as long as you're in atrial fibrillation, you need to be on a medication like that.
Speaker D:As a cyclist, you can't be on one of those medications because if you fall while on one of those medications, you will bleed continuously.
Speaker D:And if you internally, that obviously is a big problem.
Speaker D:So cycling is just not allowed when you're on one of these medications.
Speaker D:Brian, of course, doesn't want to be on one.
Speaker D:So he wanted to get what's called our cardioversion, which is sometimes not always successful for him.
Speaker D:Fortunately, it was basically we sedate the patient, we put electrical paddles on them, we reset the electrical system of the heart.
Speaker D:The longer you've been in atrial fibrillation, the less likely it is to work.
Speaker D:I was very fortunate in that it worked for him on, I don't know how many shocks they had to do, but it worked on him.
Speaker D:One shock, Nice.
Speaker D:So his heart clearly structurally was fine because when a heart is structurally enlarged, it's very hard to get it to go back into sinus.
Speaker D:So you clearly were fine.
Speaker D:Now, I did an episode way back when, I can't remember when, but we did a two part episode with a cardiologist on athlete's heart.
Speaker D:And athlete's heart is the thickening of the ventricles, some enlargement of the atria which can lead to atrial fibrillation.
Speaker D:It in itself is not uncommon.
Speaker D:It can be easily treated.
Speaker D:And guessing probably would what you had there and the screening question that you talked about.
Speaker D:I'm not surprised that your screening was all normal because we've talked on this program.
Speaker D:Should people get screened in the absence of symptoms?
Speaker D:Certainly for peace of mind.
Speaker D:I would never tell anybody not to.
Speaker D:I definitely tell everybody once you're over 40, cholesterol, lipids, those kinds of Things you should do.
Speaker D:But getting random echocardiograms, stress tests, things like that, the literature really has shown.
Speaker C:That it's not particularly helpful.
Speaker D:But again, they're low cost, they're non invasive.
Speaker D:And if it's going to give you peace of mind, and especially if you have a family history, I don't see a big problem with finding someone who can do it for you.
Speaker D:So for you, Brian, it was good that it gave you some peace of mind, but you still had this atrial fibrillation, which is obviously concerning.
Speaker D:So please do pick up the story at that point.
Speaker A:Yeah, so I went into normal rhythm again.
Speaker A:This would have been when I was 50, so about seven, almost eight years ago now.
Speaker A:Now.
Speaker A:And had a good diagnosis on everything else fine.
Speaker A:So I carried on and everything was fine.
Speaker A: currence of the afib until in: Speaker A:And that about two weeks later, we were home and I was still recovering and I was sitting on the couch and I felt a little off and I was like, oh, boy.
Speaker A:So I didn't say anything to my wife.
Speaker A:I was like, let me go for a run tomorrow morning and I'll know right away.
Speaker A:And I literally put on my shoes and I ran maybe 300ft.
Speaker A:And I'm like, yep, I'm in afib because my heart rate just immediately took off like a racehorse.
Speaker D:I'm just gonna say, if you think you're an afib folks, don't do that.
Speaker D:Drive to the cardiologist or the.
Speaker D:I know.
Speaker A:Well, I figured it was a relatively low risk, real quick way that I could do it.
Speaker A:And I immediately got on the phone and got an appointment to get in with the cardiologist.
Speaker A:And sure enough, I was a navib.
Speaker A:And because of my previous experience, I was like, can we just, at this point, can we just go right to the cardio version so I can just get out of this and then we can talk about the future.
Speaker A:And so we had me scheduled a week later.
Speaker D:And they didn't put you on any anticoagulation for that week?
Speaker A:Oh, no, we did, yeah.
Speaker A:Yeah.
Speaker B:For.
Speaker A:For a week, yeah, Just.
Speaker A:Just for a week, which is fine.
Speaker A:I was on the eloquis, and so they cardioverted my.
Speaker B:Me.
Speaker A:So in my conversations with the doctor, he said, listen, you are.
Speaker A:You have a propensity for this to happen.
Speaker A:Dollars to donuts, it probably will happen again at some point.
Speaker A:He did not put any limitations on my activity levels.
Speaker A:At this point, but just made me aware that I am, obviously my condition is probably something that's likely to recur at some point down the road.
Speaker A:And at that point I probably would have to consider the ablation procedure, which you can describe better than I can, where they just zap the part of the heart that's causing the issues as a prophylactic to try and prevent it from coming back.
Speaker A:So two incidents.
Speaker A:So I made peace with it.
Speaker A:I was like, listen, this is just the deal.
Speaker A:And I never would put competing at an event or even the level of training that I do ahead of my long term health.
Speaker A:And I'm always willing to say, if I'm told, told by doctor, hey, that's it, you can't keep doing this or you need to do less of this, then I am definitely willing to have that conversation, even though it would be a very dramatic change.
Speaker A:But again, it's not something that I want to mess around with.
Speaker A:And I. I just want to make sure that I'm making the right decisions for my longevity for my family, because that's obviously what's most important.
Speaker D:So, yeah, so the ablation bride's talking about sometimes.
Speaker D:So they won't do this propylactically.
Speaker D:They'll only do it if you have atrial fibrillation that is difficult to control, or you have someone like Brian who doesn't want to be on a rate controlling medication.
Speaker D:For us as athletes, the treatment for atrial fibrillation tends to be controlling the rate.
Speaker D:And when you're running, biking, you need your rate to get high.
Speaker D:And you can't do that if you're on some of these medications, beta blockers, for example.
Speaker D:So an ablation, a cardiac ablation is one of the things that you can do and an electrophysiologist does, is they go in and they actually, with a catheter that's inserted through the groin, it's threaded up to the heart.
Speaker D:They can actually do some electrical mapping of the atria to see if there is a competing pacemaker area that's causing defibrillation.
Speaker D:There often are small foci that are in the atria that can be found to be the source of the fibrillation.
Speaker D:And if you just like you said, zap them, you just take out those little pacemaker cells, then you return the sinus area, the sinus node, to being the dominant pacemaker, and you can get rid of the problem of ablation.
Speaker D:The issue with this is it's not always successful.
Speaker D:And even when it is successful, the atrial fibrillation can come back when other areas within the atria then become problematic down the road.
Speaker D:But for people in whom it works, it can give lasting symptom relief from atrial fibrillation for quite a long time.
Speaker D:So it's definitely an option for you to consider should this recurrence.
Speaker A:Yeah.
Speaker A:What was interesting is that my cardiologist had mentioned, he said, listen, you do an ablation, usually we see that it's good for seven, eight years.
Speaker A:And I'm like, that's kind of where my incidence of AFIB seem to be occurring on a schedule anyway.
Speaker A:So knock on wood, we'll see as I carry forward.
Speaker A:If it does come back at some point, if it comes back sooner, then an ablation would certainly be something I would consider.
Speaker A:If it comes, if it's another seven years, then I would probably just go and continue to do the cardio version, assuming that another cardiac workup on my heart doesn't show anything else that I need to be more concerned about.
Speaker D:So I think in many ways, Brian, you're very typical of a lot of athletes in our age groups where you are, you're very active, this is very much a part of your life.
Speaker D:It's something you really enjoy, but you're facing the reality that, look, we're getting older, we have these things.
Speaker D:But I really like how sanguine you are about this idea that, look, my health comes first, my longevity comes first.
Speaker D:I'm not willing.
Speaker C:This is.
Speaker D:I do this for fun if it's gonna be a risk for me.
Speaker D:So where do you like, how do you make that decision?
Speaker D:Making?
Speaker D:Like, for example, if you went in, you had told me once that your cholesterol is borderline, but you aren't interested in taking a statin because you are worried about the issue around muscle soreness and loss of muscle strength, which is very real.
Speaker D:So how do you make those determinations?
Speaker D:Because we also know that statins are very positive in terms of longevity and improved outcomes.
Speaker D:So for you personally, how do you handle that?
Speaker A:It's so interesting that you bring up the cholesterol piece, because I was going to actually mention that as part of this call, because I know you and I have had that conversation and you've been very helpful in keeping my head on straight about it and maybe me not being so pedantic about thinking about, no, I can't do this.
Speaker A:This isn't something I could do.
Speaker A:I actually, a couple months ago, started to heavily supplement with a Medicaid, just an overcounter medication called cholestol I think it's a, it's a capsule.
Speaker A:It's basically.
Speaker A:And also a fiber supplement.
Speaker A:It's.
Speaker D:Is it a binding?
Speaker D:Is it a cholesterol binder?
Speaker A:No, it's, it, it's a natural product.
Speaker A:It's a, there's a, it is a fiber, it's a, basically a fiber supplement.
Speaker A:I, I've greatly increased the amount of fiber in my diet through these supplements and I did do blood work recently and my cholesterol, my total cholesterol number, it dropped from around 300 to 266.
Speaker D:Okay.
Speaker A:And my LDL dropped from 180 down to 130.
Speaker A:Get.
Speaker A:Suddenly my LDL was at a level where it almost wasn't even excessive.
Speaker A:My total number is still high because my HDL is also still pretty high.
Speaker A:But it was a huge improvement.
Speaker A:My cardiologist was really surprised.
Speaker A:So, so I'm going, I'm still doing that.
Speaker A:I've added an additional just over the counter kind of supplement that according to ChatGPT is pretty, can be effective.
Speaker A:So I'm curious to see what it does and I'll have more blood work done next month and see what the outcome is.
Speaker D:So there's no questions.
Speaker D:There are non medication things that can be done.
Speaker D:Dietary things.
Speaker D:There are, there are like I remember reading about oat bran as one of the things that can lower cholesterol.
Speaker D:So there are dietary things that can be done.
Speaker D:No question.
Speaker D:Question.
Speaker A:Yeah.
Speaker A:When you post this up, I'll add into at on the Facebook group the the two that I'm the three that I'm taking just so people can take a look at it and if they want to, if they're having a similar issue to try it.
Speaker A:But so anyway the cholesterol thing is still a work in progress that I am dealing with.
Speaker A:But you're right in, in a general sense I'm being stubborn by not wanting to take the statins.
Speaker A:Although isn't there a new medication that just came out that's not a statin that actually has proven some efficacy?
Speaker D:There may very well be.
Speaker D:It's not my area of practice so I don't.
Speaker A:Something that, that apparently may not have the same sort of side effects.
Speaker A:But anyway.
Speaker D:But I'm interested in how you process these decisions because you're a very high performing athlete.
Speaker D:It is very important to you but you're also very attuned to this.
Speaker D:Look, we all see what's happening and we see people dying, we see people succumbing to this kind of stuff.
Speaker D:I'm the same way I'm getting to be older and I want to keep doing this as long as I can but at the same time time I want to enjoy my retirement, I want to enjoy my life.
Speaker D:So how do you process these decisions?
Speaker A:Yeah, I honestly, I look at, I have a 13 year old son so I'm an older dad to a younger son and he means more to me than anything in the world and I want to make sure that I'm there for him.
Speaker A:I love endurance training and I love racing.
Speaker A:If you told me today that I could no longer race but I could keep training, I'd be okay with that.
Speaker A:It's the, it's a routine of what I do and so, so when I consider a world in which my health is being adversely affected by long duration endurance type of training, maybe I'll try high rocks.
Speaker A:There can always be something I can do with my time for my physical and mental well being.
Speaker A:That doesn't necessarily have to be a thing that is putting me into a level of risk.
Speaker A:One thing that I've recently completely given up is riding outdoors.
Speaker A:My wife had a bike accident at the end of June and she broke.
Speaker D:One of those radius.
Speaker D:Yeah, right.
Speaker A:And then she had damaged, fractured some bones in her wrist and it.
Speaker A:And she's still recovering and she was just out riding and she had a piece of metal in the road and went down hard and had to have a plate put in and pins put in.
Speaker A:It was a very traumatic event for her and it was a reminder to me I love riding my bike outdoors, but not the that much.
Speaker D:Yeah.
Speaker A:And I'm willing to maybe say, you know what, I'm just going to ride that trainer, I'm going to do my training on that trainer.
Speaker A:When it comes time for a race, I have no problem jumping off the trainer and riding outdoors.
Speaker A:That's fine.
Speaker A:But I guess in terms of me doing the risk analysis, which is.
Speaker A:Risk analysis is what I do for a living.
Speaker A:I'm an investment advisor so I'm always managing people's risk.
Speaker A:And so when I look at the risk return and I figure I'm just not going to ride outdoors.
Speaker A:In the same vein, when I look at my cardiac health, whatever it may be, it needs to, I need to manage it in the same way and unnecessary risks just don't make a lot of sense to me in that respect.
Speaker A:And I'm sure I can find something else that would provide me the same sort of satisfaction over time and the same health and wellbeing benefits I did.
Speaker D:Yeah, I couldn't agree more.
Speaker D:I feel like I've got a lot of other interests in my life.
Speaker D:As much as I love pole vaulting, sports, spectating, anyways.
Speaker D:Yeah, no, I feel the same way and I feel like just so many other ways.
Speaker D:And I will continue to be active and do things, but as long as I can continue to train and compete, I will do so.
Speaker D:But if it ever becomes a question, then it's easy.
Speaker D:It's an easy decision for me to make at this point because I've been doing it for long enough.
Speaker D:What do you.
Speaker D:What is your advice for others who may.
Speaker D:I don't know, they may be feeling that they're not yet done or they've got more to do and maybe they're pushing a little bit more and they.
Speaker C:Don't want to hear.
Speaker D:Or maybe they haven't gone to the doctor because they don't want to get that bad news.
Speaker D:They don't want to hear that.
Speaker D:Maybe they need to step back.
Speaker D:What's your advice for people like that?
Speaker A:Yeah, I think especially when it comes to our sport in particular, I think you don't need to look much further than the.
Speaker A:These horrible stories we hear of someone in the swim passing away an undiagnosed cardiac issue.
Speaker A:When you do the type of stuff that we do can be very problematic and dangerous.
Speaker A:And I think that, that to ignore any symptoms, to ignore anything when it comes to that, is a mistake.
Speaker A:And we need to be very honest with ourselves and we need to find out what is going on because you just never know again.
Speaker A:That's what drove me to.
Speaker A:In to see the cardiologist when I was turning 50 in the first place.
Speaker A:I just needed to know, as you said it.
Speaker A:Is it.
Speaker A:Was it necessary?
Speaker A:No, I was perfectly fine.
Speaker A:It turned out to be necessary in retrospect, but I just wanted that peace of mind.
Speaker A:And it's something that you.
Speaker A:Unfortunately, you may not know it's happening until it is too late.
Speaker A:And that's a scary.
Speaker A:That's a scary thought that you're.
Speaker A:You feel like you're doing everything correctly for your health.
Speaker A:And then it turns out that the thing you're doing, you think you're doing correctly for your health is actually causing a damage that you're unaware of that could be very problematic.
Speaker A:So I think people should just be very honest with themselves and especially men as we get older, because.
Speaker A:And if you're trained, if you've been training for a long time, endurance sports has a lot of benefits.
Speaker A:But there are some downsides that we all need to be aware of.
Speaker D:Yeah, that's really well said.
Speaker D:And I can't think of a better place to finish off than there.
Speaker D:Ryan Dunn is a very high achieving, very accomplished age group athletes.
Speaker D:I've had a great pleasure and great privilege of calling him a friend since we met first at La Quinta, as he reminds me, but through the program as well.
Speaker D:And he's been a frequent contributor to that Facebook group.
Speaker D:If you're not a member, I hope that you'll head over there.
Speaker D:You have one more reason to do so because he's going to to list those healthful supplements that he takes.
Speaker D:So head on over to the TriDarc podcast, private Facebook group.
Speaker D:If you're not a member, answer the three easy questions.
Speaker D:I'll be glad to gain you admittance and you can see what Brian takes.
Speaker D:You can join the conversation and let us know.
Speaker D:Have you ever had any of these kinds of discussions with your physician?
Speaker D:Do you have symptoms that you are concerned about or have you ever had to face these kinds of problems where you've wondered whether or not this is a sport that you can persist in for a long time time?
Speaker D:We would love to hear and we would love to have you be part of that conversation, Brian.
Speaker D:Thank you so much.
Speaker D:Yes.
Speaker A:Can I just add one thing?
Speaker D:Yeah.
Speaker A:Julie Juliet Hockman kicks ass.
Speaker D:Yes, she is.
Speaker A:Oh my God.
Speaker D:Yeah.
Speaker A:Her results at national were damn impressive.
Speaker D:Yeah, I know.
Speaker D:I'm very privileged to call her a friend as well.
Speaker D:And she is.
Speaker D:She's an impressive individual just across the board.
Speaker D:So I am very lucky to have her as part of this program.
Speaker A:I wanted to give her a shout out on the show.
Speaker D:She will be thrilled to hear this.
Speaker D:God.
Speaker D:All right, Brian, thank you so much again for joining me today.
Speaker D:I really appreciate you so much and look forward to seeing you at the races sometime soon.
Speaker A:Thank you, Jeff.
Speaker C:Take care.
Speaker E:Hi, I'm Sam Sanders and I'm the proud editor of the Tridoc Podcast.
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