Episode 208
Ep. 208- Kona Review Thoughts, Vaccines, and Dealing with Long Covid
In this episode:
Kona delivered absolute chaos right out of the gate — Solvig collapsed multiple times and still somehow staggered to the line while Taylor kept her cool and stole the show, and the men’s race was equally cinematic with surprise podiums and penalties shaking up expectations. We nerd out on all the race drama — who flamed out from the heat, who played the island instead of their rivals, and why sticking to your own plan may be the only sane strategy in that oven of humidity. I rant (politely) about the broadcast — yes, some commentators were doing hot takes from another planet — and we debate whether medical should be empowered to pull athletes who are clearly in danger. Then we switch gears to the medical mailbag where Juliet and I walk through mRNA versus traditional vaccines, why boosters matter this season, and why getting jabbed is way less dramatic than catching the flu or Covid. Finally, we sit down with Matt Fitzgerald — he tells the brutal, honest story behind his book Dying to Run, his struggle with long Covid, and what it took to claw back into endurance racing. It’s part race recap, part public-health PSA, and part moving human story — all the highs, the lows, and the weird bits in between that make triathlon and life strangely fascinating. Matt Fitzgerald’s part of the show is quietly devastating and inspiring — he writes about getting mugged by long COVID, losing running (and, for a while, normal life), and then deciding to sign up for a 100K in the middle of a health crisis. Let me be clear: he didn’t do this for clicks. He did it to reclaim identity and to say goodbye to an unfinished race in his own terms. He walks us through the abyss of post-viral illness — neuropathy, post-exertional malaise, autonomic dysregulation — and how those things make ordinary exertion feel like a betrayal by your own body. The book, Dying to Run, is an account of stubbornness, strategy and weird kindnesses — like friends carrying SATCOM devices and pacers who’d consider calling for a helicopter because, yes, it got that intense. We talk about recovery in real, non-Instagram terms: it isn’t binary. Matt documents 35 symptoms (and there are 200+ associated with long COVID), and “recovery” becomes a fuzzy, stubborn progression. He’s improved significantly over six years, can run again, but still pays in post-exertional payback and ongoing autonomic weirdness. There’s also the sobering sidebar that the testing to diagnose these issues uncovered cardiac disease that might have otherwise gone unnoticed. His message is part stoic prayer, part love letter to community: you can’t always grit your way out of chronic illness, but you can outsmart it with careful planning, good support, and the occasional reckless, soulful act — like lining up for one more race.
Segments:
[19:40]- Medical Mailbag: Vaccines
[48:03]- Interview: Matt Fitzgerald
Links
Matt's Facebook page@endurance_mastery on Instagram@mattfitwriter on XMatt on YouTube
Transcript
Foreign.
Speaker B:Hello, and welcome once again to the Tridock Podcast.
Speaker B: ,: Speaker B:I'm your host, Jeff Zankoff, an emergency physician, triathlete, triathlon coach, and a multiple Ironman finisher.
Speaker B:Coming to you as always from beautiful sunny Denver, Colorado.
Speaker B:I have dispensed with the opening snippet at the beginning of the program for a reason that will be very obvious.
Speaker B:And about 10 seconds.
Speaker B:I am going to have a medical mailbag segment on vaccinations that's going to be coming up shortly.
Speaker B:I am going to have an interview with Matt Fitzgerald that's going to be coming up a little bit later on in the program.
Speaker B:But before that, I had to bring back Matt Sharp because this past weekend, Kona.
Speaker B:Oh, my gosh.
Speaker B:I wanted to get Matt's hot take on the race and I wanted to get his opinion.
Speaker B:I also wanted to thank Matt, Matthew, so much for bringing back the Tempo news.
Speaker B:Matt, welcome back to the TR Podcast for a very brief sort of intro to the program.
Speaker B:The Tempo's back.
Speaker B:I'm velempt.
Speaker C:I don't even know what that word means.
Speaker C:I hope it means it's a good thing.
Speaker D:It's a good thing.
Speaker B:I'm emotional, I'm overwrought.
Speaker C:I love it.
Speaker C:Yeah, no, we're kind of getting back into the swing of things once a week for the folks who are Tempo fans trying to just get back into it when what better time?
Speaker C:Oh, my gosh, Everyone is back on the tri world for sure.
Speaker B:You and I were texting pretty much nonstop all day Saturday.
Speaker B:We had a video call because I was just absolutely gobsmacked by the finish of the women's race.
Speaker B:So what were your thoughts?
Speaker B:I don't think we have to explain what happened.
Speaker B:I think anybody who's listening to this program is well aware.
Speaker B:But what were your hot takes on?
Speaker B:First, the men's race, and then we'll talk about the women's race, which was just beyond epic.
Speaker B:So on the men's race, what were your thoughts?
Speaker C:I just think it's hilarious, Jeff, because after last year and the absolute chaos, the collapses that we saw, I was like, man, it's going to be good.
Speaker C:We're going to have a normal year, maybe even kind of boring, just to kind of get back into the rhythm of things.
Speaker C:And of course, it was anything but boring.
Speaker C:Just every year this race gets more competitive, and especially in the last couple years, it seems like the world championships, which is now obviously back together, it just is absolute cinema.
Speaker C:And really, in that men's race.
Speaker C:My picks.
Speaker C:Jeff picks.
Speaker B:Well, I mean, it's so hard to make picks in that race, right?
Speaker C:And I didn't think so.
Speaker B:Yeah.
Speaker C:Yeah, I didn't think so.
Speaker C:I. Blumenthelt, he was my guy, my ride or die.
Speaker C:And he certainly died a little bit out there.
Speaker C:Crazy.
Speaker C:What do you think it's going to take for him to get back to the top of the World Championship podium in Kona?
Speaker C:Once again, not even on the podium.
Speaker B:The thing is, we see in Kona, year in and year out, it's not the course.
Speaker B:It's not even the people on the course that you're racing.
Speaker B:It's whether or not you can handle the elements.
Speaker B:And it was hilarious to me because we kept hearing, oh, my God, the broadcast was so bad.
Speaker B:But we kept hearing them say, oh, it's so much cooler here under cloud cover on ali' I Drive.
Speaker B:And I'm like, what are you talking about?
Speaker B:I'm like, first of all, it doesn't matter if the sun is out or not.
Speaker B: The humidity is, like: Speaker B:The temperature's the same no matter what.
Speaker B:Plus you have cloud cover, maybe in town, but the rest of the course is clearly blazingly hot under the sun, so, yeah, it was.
Speaker C:And humidity certainly was a massive factor, even if maybe the temperatures weren't that high, supposedly.
Speaker C:It just seems like, yeah, there was carnage out there, just like there was every year.
Speaker C:Carnage.
Speaker C:Absolute carnage.
Speaker C:Yeah, absolutely.
Speaker B:Ditlev clearly looked great.
Speaker B:I kept thinking he might falter.
Speaker B:I didn't think he would collapse.
Speaker C:We have to think that now.
Speaker C:If you lead off the bike in Kona, you almost have to price in that.
Speaker C:Someone's going to.
Speaker B:Someone's gonna.
Speaker B:Yeah, yeah.
Speaker B:Vincent Louis was not on my radar.
Speaker C:I didn't pick him for podium.
Speaker C:You're welcome, Vince.
Speaker C:I didn't.
Speaker B:Does he retire now, literally?
Speaker C:He will retire.
Speaker D:Seriously?
Speaker B:He think he will retire?
Speaker C:Yeah.
Speaker C:I talked to him, and I talked to him in Boise, Jeff, and he was very adamant.
Speaker C:Yeah, he was gonna be done.
Speaker C:He actually referenced when I was talking to him.
Speaker C:Cause I was like, oh, are you sure you're gonna be done?
Speaker C:He's like, yes, I'm going all in for Kona.
Speaker C:I want to go out on top.
Speaker C:I don't want to be like Alistair Brownlee in T100, whatever it was, where he was crawling to the finish.
Speaker C:I don't want to be like Jan Frodeno, 17th at Nice in his final race.
Speaker C:I want to go out on a high note.
Speaker B:I hope he does, because we so rarely see athletes do that.
Speaker C:I truly would be awesome.
Speaker C:I would bet a lot of money he's not coming back.
Speaker C:He seems to be really.
Speaker C:I think he's at peace with everything now in his career.
Speaker C:The big thing with him was always the COVID postponement.
Speaker C: won the Olympic gold medal in: Speaker C:And honestly, I don't think he could have.
Speaker C:But to finish your career with this win in obviously the most iconic race in the sport, I think he's happy to walk away.
Speaker C:I think he's happy to move on to whatever is next for him and enjoy calling his shot and finishing on a high.
Speaker C:Unbelievable.
Speaker C:Yeah.
Speaker B:I'm so excited for him.
Speaker B:It's great.
Speaker B:Gustav did better than I expected.
Speaker B:You had called him to be on the podium.
Speaker B:I did not expect him to do that.
Speaker B:Well, I'm very happy for him that he did.
Speaker B:It was amazing.
Speaker C:What do you think about when people are saying, oh, you know, these guys got penalties.
Speaker C:Him and Marquardt, second and third both had three minute penalties.
Speaker C:Gustav takes the win if he doesn't have a penalty.
Speaker C:What do you think of people saying, like, oh, if you didn't have a penalty, are you like, yeah, like you shouldn't have got it?
Speaker C:Or what do you think about that?
Speaker B:You know the penalties were given, right?
Speaker B:We have said previously that we were happy that they reduced the time of the penalties because it's more likely they're going to give more of them.
Speaker B:So now they're giving more of them.
Speaker B:I don't think we can complain about the fact that they're giving more of them.
Speaker B:I think we have to just be like, okay, I didn't see what Matthew did that got him a penalty.
Speaker B:I didn't see what Gustav did.
Speaker B:They got the penalties.
Speaker B:And you know what, There is an argument to be made.
Speaker B:I know some people will say that we're cheating and they shouldn't benefit.
Speaker B:And then there are other people who will say, like me, those three minutes, if they're smart, and I know Matthew is damn smart.
Speaker B:He took advantage of those three minutes to cool down to get his fluids and nutrition in, and he made the most of those three minutes.
Speaker C:Two guys with penalties also got on the podium.
Speaker C:So maybe you could say it was actually to their benefit.
Speaker C:We can't test out the other possibilities.
Speaker B:It is what it is.
Speaker B:You know what?
Speaker B:It is what it is.
Speaker B:And I'm not going to.
Speaker B:Both of them were very gracious about it.
Speaker B:It's like they didn't fight it.
Speaker B:They're just like, look, I Got a penalty.
Speaker B:I didn't.
Speaker B:Matthew was like, whatever, what am I gonna do?
Speaker B:I just moved on with my day because that's how Matthew is.
Speaker B:And since I'm talking about my boy, I've been in touch with him.
Speaker B:We are trying to connect.
Speaker B:He's gonna come back on the podcast.
Speaker B:I am very excited to have him back a third time.
Speaker B:I had him before he was a big deal.
Speaker B:I had him while he was a big deal, and now I'm getting him.
Speaker B:When you bought leg, I bought low.
Speaker B:And I gotta tell you, he's amazing.
Speaker B:I'm just so pleased for him.
Speaker B:He deserves it.
Speaker B:The guy is a mensch, an absolute.
Speaker B:Another word you probably don't know, but it just means he's a great guy.
Speaker C:He just an incredible ambassador for the sport, representing us as an athlete.
Speaker C:That's who you want to showcase your.
Speaker C:The people who do your sport.
Speaker C:So, yeah, yeah, I think we're all very happy to see him on the podium.
Speaker C:Obviously his cramping stuff is clearly behind him.
Speaker C:Heard nothing, saw nothing.
Speaker C:His swim, he was in.
Speaker B:Came out of the water, fourth or fifth.
Speaker B:Yeah, out of the water, fourth or fifth.
Speaker B:Off the bike, in second and just held that steady run.
Speaker B:Didn't panic when people went by him, just held on and as people collapsed, he just went right back.
Speaker B:And just an amazing day for him.
Speaker C:And it kind of shows.
Speaker C:Obviously, Blumenfelt, the people who make noise.
Speaker C:Blumenfeld made noise the week before, doing another crazy run in the heat and doing 40Ks or whatever six days before the race.
Speaker C:Obviously you had guys in the race who were chopping things up in the swim.
Speaker C:Then real riddle, Schomburg on the bike, doing crazy things, laid low, kind of making moves, even though obviously he had his injury or his thing that he's gonna get surgery on, which you can maybe discuss a little bit.
Speaker C:But yeah, it just seems like the steady, the quiet, especially like a Ditlev.
Speaker C:He was so close to doing the whole thing.
Speaker C:A very quiet guy.
Speaker C:So I think there's maybe a lesson there, especially in Kona.
Speaker C:You gotta respect the island.
Speaker C:You gotta be humble.
Speaker C:You gotta just less noise.
Speaker C:Vince as well, he definitely has a bit of a flair to him, but there was no pre race hype, that's for sure.
Speaker B:Women's race, what can you say?
Speaker B:It was Solvik's race until less than a kilometer and she's done.
Speaker B:And even more dramatic, even more epic than what we saw last year.
Speaker B:Tables turned completely.
Speaker B:Taylor just.
Speaker B:We talked about this before the race.
Speaker B:Would she be able to stay within herself Would she have learned?
Speaker B:She clearly did.
Speaker B:Smart woman.
Speaker B:Did not panic, just raced her race and reaped the reward when Solvik collapsed.
Speaker B:Kudos to her.
Speaker B:I'm very happy for her.
Speaker B:Very sad for Solvik, obviously, because Solvik really earned that win and it's just too bad.
Speaker C:Yeah, it was interesting because I think both Taylor, I would think Lucy, to me it seemed obviously she took off like an absolute rocket at the start of the swim, but she's just so good.
Speaker C:So she actually could have been more relaxed.
Speaker C:Like she had 90 seconds on them in the end, which is kind of par for the course for her.
Speaker C:So I don't think she did anything crazy in the swimming.
Speaker C:It does seem like Lucy also relaxed a little bit on the bike.
Speaker C:It didn't seem like they were battling each other.
Speaker B:Gangbusters.
Speaker B:Yeah, no.
Speaker C:Like they both seem to have tempered themselves and held back or so you think.
Speaker C:But obviously Taylor cut to the finish in the end and Lucy didn't.
Speaker C:So yeah, it felt like both of them learned.
Speaker C:But then obviously Taylor is the one who got the result at the end of the day.
Speaker B:Laura Philipp and Julie Darin again, steady as they go.
Speaker B:Just running up through the back doing the Cat Matthews basically from last year.
Speaker C:Well, Laura Phillip, she had a great race in Nice and I feel like I definitely discounted her for this race.
Speaker C:And when she came out nine minutes back of Lucy Charles, I was like, oh yeah, my prediction totally on here.
Speaker C:And then she just absolutely put my prediction in shambles coming back like that.
Speaker C:She held her own very well on the bike, obviously by herself it seems like most of the day.
Speaker C:And then obviously did her thing on the run.
Speaker C:So kudos to her.
Speaker C:I always thought with her maybe the 20 meter rule might make her hurt even more.
Speaker C:Just we haven't really seen that in Kona as much.
Speaker C:But yeah, she shut me up big time.
Speaker C:Very impressive race to me.
Speaker B:I think what we saw this weekend is that to win in Kona, you really have to recognize that you're racing the island and you have to not be so worried about the other competitors.
Speaker B:You have to do what Taylor did, you have to do what Matthew did, you have to do what Van Sant did and stay within yourself, be in control and just let other people do their thing.
Speaker B:And they're either gonna beat you because they can, or they're gonna come undone because they can't.
Speaker C:Yeah, and Solveaag too.
Speaker C:It's like she had a lot of pressure on her coming back defending the title and she honestly played it as perfectly as she could.
Speaker C:It just maybe she was a little excited on the run.
Speaker C:She knew she was gonna be catching Taylor and especially when she was getting the splits, I'm sure.
Speaker C:So maybe she just got a little excited where if she had held back just a little bit, she would have made it to that finish in the lead.
Speaker C:An athlete who's going to be back year on from now.
Speaker C:And, yeah, it definitely showed.
Speaker C:It wasn't a fluke last year.
Speaker C:Like, she's a real deal.
Speaker B:Okay, a couple of things we've talked about in the past that I want to bring back.
Speaker B:Number one, we talked about this before.
Speaker B:70.3 Worlds.
Speaker B:Does Lucy's decision to skip 70.3 worlds now look not so great?
Speaker C:It's easy when obviously she doesn't have a good race.
Speaker C:It's like, what if she did 70.3 worlds and then had the similar result?
Speaker C:I think.
Speaker C:I don't know.
Speaker C:I always like it when the athletes break up those big training blocks.
Speaker C:And obviously she just probably had a big monster one leading into Kona because she did Roth.
Speaker C:Right.
Speaker C:And then not much after that as far as I remember.
Speaker C:So, yeah, I think maybe she did suffer.
Speaker C:Clearly something is going on or she's just maybe still overextending herself on the swim and the bike.
Speaker C:Just.
Speaker C:I don't know.
Speaker C:I haven't heard anything.
Speaker C:I don't know if she's posted anything since the race.
Speaker C:She's probably very frustrated.
Speaker C:Second year in the row, dnfing in the same ish spot.
Speaker C:So, yeah, I think I always like it when I see athletes break these things up.
Speaker C:Most of those athletes did it successfully with knees.
Speaker C:So she'll maybe reconsider that, I would think, going forward.
Speaker B:Second question.
Speaker B:And I've been asked this several times by different people since the race, and we talked about this, you and I, on tempo talks.
Speaker B:A couple years ago in Kona, San Laidlau looked like he was in serious jeopardy.
Speaker B:Heading into the energy lab, you could see that he was not right.
Speaker B:He was staggering on the road.
Speaker B:He clearly was overheated.
Speaker B:He clearly was in jeopardy of, I thought at the time, a serious health crisis.
Speaker B:Now, he did not win the race.
Speaker B:He did manage to finish.
Speaker B:He finished 17th on that day.
Speaker B:This last year, we saw what happened to Taylor and Lucy.
Speaker B:Both of them were unable to finish.
Speaker B:And then this year, Solvig collapses to the ground.
Speaker B:Not once, not twice, but three times.
Speaker B:And somebody said to me, if I'm a boxer and I fall to the canvas three times, that fight's over.
Speaker B:In what world is it okay for her to get up and finish.
Speaker B:Now, to her credit, she was so far ahead that she was able to walk it in with the advantage of ice packs that were given to her by medical.
Speaker B:So technically, outside assistance, not really legit, but she walked it in.
Speaker B:I can understand why she's crowd favorite.
Speaker B:She's defending champion.
Speaker B:I get it.
Speaker B:Should there be a protocol by which medical can pull an athlete off the course when they clearly look like they are in real distress?
Speaker C:I think so.
Speaker B:Yeah, I think so, too.
Speaker C:I just.
Speaker C:I guess.
Speaker C:What is the threshold, then?
Speaker C:You've hit the ground twice.
Speaker C:Ah, you're still good.
Speaker C:Oh, third time.
Speaker C:All right, you're out.
Speaker C:Is it.
Speaker C:You go to ground once and you're out.
Speaker C:Clearly, she was able to finish.
Speaker C:And I don't know.
Speaker C:The thing is, we had those athletes, Taylor and Lucy collapsed last year, clearly in heat distress.
Speaker C:And both of them, I would say, came back fine, obviously nibbled.
Speaker B:Although we know in 24, Sam had prolonged issues after.
Speaker B:And we know that Taylor had issues last year, even though she did raise 70.3 worlds, she said that she had issues afterwards.
Speaker B:So there is the potential not just for serious health issues on the day, but for consequences thereafter.
Speaker B:And a lot of these athletes aren't gonna want to be pulled.
Speaker B:But somebody's got.
Speaker B:Listen, Reece Barkley's out there making the decision for Lucy.
Speaker B:Somebody, I think, needs to be empowered to make the decision for the other athletes.
Speaker B:Cause they're not gonna make it for themselves.
Speaker C:I think the proximity to the finish played a role in Solvags continuation.
Speaker C:Because if she's out halfway through the marathon doing that, we're not getting you to do another.
Speaker B:Right.
Speaker C:20 Plus K. But the fact that she was, what, a kilometer?
Speaker C:She was a kilometer.
Speaker C:She didn't ever pass out.
Speaker C:So I guess that's something.
Speaker C:She was always conscious.
Speaker C:She always, like you said, got up.
Speaker C:Yeah.
Speaker C:And kept going.
Speaker C:That whole outside assistance thing is interesting.
Speaker C:Like, to me, that's almost grounds for disqualification.
Speaker C:Well, yeah, A bit cruel after it.
Speaker D:Would have been getting to that point.
Speaker B:It would have been a disqualifier for an age grouper.
Speaker C:Right, Exactly.
Speaker C:Exactly.
Speaker C:So that's interesting to me.
Speaker C:If I was a competitor and I found that out, I would probably be kind of pissed.
Speaker C:Especially if there was pro series implications.
Speaker C:Like I could.
Speaker C:I don't know.
Speaker C:So I guess in that sense, it's obviously inspiring that she got to the finish.
Speaker C:Yeah.
Speaker C:It just seems like to me, there's got to be some kind of protocol if you're on the ground for four minutes or something that's it, you're done.
Speaker C:I don't know.
Speaker C:I'm not a medical expert, but it seems like there needs to be some kind of protocol because not everyone's gonna be that far away from or close to the finish, rather.
Speaker B:Final thoughts on the day and I think we just have to touch briefly on the broadcast.
Speaker B:I thought Rinni was terrible yet again.
Speaker B:I do not understand why they continue to put her on air.
Speaker B:She had some ridiculous comments, making comments about how, oh, they're gonna care more about the DNF than the hundred thousand dollars they just lost.
Speaker B:And I'm like, what world are you living in?
Speaker B:Like, seriously, these athletes do not have a lot of income nor do they have a long career.
Speaker B:I'm pretty sure the hundred grand she just lost is probably going to piss her off a lot.
Speaker C:Maybe for Rennie the DNF matters more.
Speaker C:Yeah.
Speaker C:And then she's in a little bit of a different situation than I think.
Speaker B:And then making comments about the weather and then.
Speaker B:And who is the guy that was yelling at us?
Speaker B:There was like, somebody was like just yelling, screaming at us.
Speaker B:When Solvik went down, it was like, listen, we had Mike Lovato in the past who was just very boring.
Speaker B:And then we have this guy who's just Bob, I think his name, I don't know what his name was, but he was just yelling into the microphone in a manner that was not particularly interesting.
Speaker C:Yeah, I think overall the broadcast was better.
Speaker C:Generally.
Speaker C:I think they did a better job.
Speaker C:They had better commentators.
Speaker B:Laura was great.
Speaker B:Sam Appleton was great.
Speaker C:Yeah, Sam Appleton was great.
Speaker C:They needed to do more with him.
Speaker C:He really was giving it some beans for sure.
Speaker C:Daniela Ryf, just an athlete who's not a good commentator.
Speaker C:Being a good athlete doesn't mean you're going to be a good commentator, a good broadcaster.
Speaker C:So she's definitely in that.
Speaker C:Jan's funny, he's interesting.
Speaker C:He did those post race interviews and I just didn't think they were very good.
Speaker C:No, because questions were terrible.
Speaker B:He's too busy trying to be funny and.
Speaker C:Yeah, yeah, yeah, he's got to keep working on that.
Speaker C:He's just, he's yawn.
Speaker C:So they'll keep him around for sure.
Speaker C:But I think if you're someone like that, you need to do some kind of training or just education or I don't know, it could be better.
Speaker C:But I do think generally Ironman did a better job.
Speaker C:They had this thing, I didn't actually use it, but where you had the opportunity to watch either race, the men's or the Women's.
Speaker C:It sounded like, oh, if you wanted to have the option just to watch a women's race, they had cameras going all the time.
Speaker C:I don't think the commentary was separate.
Speaker C:It was, you're still gonna get the men's commentary if they were talking about the men, but if you wanted eyes on the women's, and that's great.
Speaker C:I think that's super important.
Speaker B:They had more cameras, which was great.
Speaker B:They had more on screen info, which was great.
Speaker B:They still were dependent on the timing chips and they couldn't give you live times the way they can in the tour or something like that.
Speaker B:But at least there was a lot more information available.
Speaker B:So there were definitely things that were better.
Speaker B:But the commentary just.
Speaker B:It's too bad because the race was so good and the commentary was just not.
Speaker C:No, it's getting better.
Speaker C:But I actually thought there was less commercials.
Speaker C:I don't know, maybe I wasn't, like watching as deeply as I did last year, but to me it seemed like there was less commercials.
Speaker C:So that's kind of nice for the viewer anyways and having it on YouTube and everything's all good.
Speaker C:So that.
Speaker C:That's helpful.
Speaker B:All right, Matt, thank you so much for coming back and talking about it.
Speaker B:Triathlon has clearly a very bright future.
Speaker B:Very exciting pro field.
Speaker B:I think that we can look forward to just some amazing racing to come.
Speaker B:Is Kirsten going to be racing in La Quinta?
Speaker C:No, I think she's done for the season.
Speaker C:I think she's shutting it down.
Speaker C:Take some nice downtown now.
Speaker C:So we're enjoying that for sure.
Speaker B:All right.
Speaker B:Thank you so much for bringing back Tempo News.
Speaker B:Everybo.
Speaker B:If you are a previous subscriber, you've probably seen it.
Speaker B:If you're not, make sure you get on that.
Speaker B:Matt, thank you so much for being here.
Speaker B:Really appreciate it.
Speaker B:Stick around, folks, right after this short break.
Speaker B:I will have a medical mailbag segment for you coming right up.
Speaker B:It's going to be on vaccines.
Speaker B:Whether or not you should consider RNA or just traditional vaccines.
Speaker B:We're going to talk about all of that.
Speaker B:It's coming up right now.
Speaker B:It is time once again for the medical mailbag, that section of the program when I am joined by my friend and colleague, Juliet Hockman.
Speaker B:Juliet, I started the program this evening with Matt Sharp, who came back and we just had a discussion about the goings on this past weekend in Kona.
Speaker B:You and I talked a little bit about that as well.
Speaker B:What were your thoughts about the incredible.
Speaker A:Yeah, we could go on and on for the next half an hour.
Speaker B:Well, let's talk a little bit about it anyway.
Speaker A:Yeah, it was so much fun.
Speaker A:Fun.
Speaker A:That's not.
Speaker A:It was so inspiring to watch, right?
Speaker A:You had in both the men's and the women's races.
Speaker A:And of course, I was most interested in the women's race.
Speaker A:And the drama was a little bit more on the women's side.
Speaker A:This again this year, and I think a couple of things.
Speaker A:First of all, just, it's such a great lesson to all of us age group athletes and the athletes we work with, as well as ourselves, to point out your race is not over when something goes wrong.
Speaker A:Right.
Speaker A:Your race doesn't have to be over.
Speaker A:And of course, Solvig was the extreme example of this.
Speaker A:But even for her, she waited, she stayed down, she got what she needed, and she somehow still managed to come across the name.
Speaker A:And same with Taylor.
Speaker A:Taylor watched Solveig one right by her.
Speaker A:She's taking care of herself.
Speaker A:You just never know what's going to happen in front of you.
Speaker A:You never know what's going to happen behind you.
Speaker A:You could, gosh, it's just such a great example to just try to hang in there, try to get some nutrition in, try to cool, try to solve the problem, take care of yourself, and you just never know.
Speaker A:Things might turn around.
Speaker A:I just found it incredibly inspiring.
Speaker B:The couple of things we said just before were, number one, Kona is.
Speaker B:It's not a race against the other competitors, it's a race against yourself and the elements.
Speaker B:And it's just like we saw this with Matthew, we saw this with Vincent, we saw this with Taylor.
Speaker B:You just stick to your plan.
Speaker B:You do your thing.
Speaker B:You cannot be consumed with what the other people are doing.
Speaker B:Because if Solvig goes by Taylor and Taylor's mindset has to be, if she can do it, then good for her, because I cannot respond.
Speaker B:It's going to kill me or it's going to make me blow up.
Speaker B:And so I'm just going to run my race and hope for the best.
Speaker B:And it worked out.
Speaker B:And Matthew was the same way, right?
Speaker B:All these guys went past Matthew and he just stuck to his plan and he passed a bunch of them back and finished on the podium.
Speaker B:And so that was one thing.
Speaker B:And then the second thing was Taylor just really learned from last year.
Speaker B:Matt and I were talking last week or last episode about would Taylor be able to exorcise those demons and would she be able to learn not to push too hard?
Speaker B:And that was a textbook example.
Speaker B:Like you just so nicely put it, she stayed within herself.
Speaker B:She took care of herself.
Speaker B:She didn't worry about what Solveg was doing and it was just a complete role reversal from last year.
Speaker B:And the most dramatic, my Sandra, not a huge triathlon fan.
Speaker B:She's sitting next to me on the couch and she's losing her mind.
Speaker A:Right.
Speaker A:I know.
Speaker A:I think everybody was.
Speaker A:I will say it's been so terrific watching Taylor last five years just grow up a little bit.
Speaker A:When she first exploded on the scene and boy did she explode on the scene.
Speaker A:She was fast immediately, right?
Speaker A:Just such a talented individual.
Speaker A:She was just super young and immature and she would say things that came off the wrong way and she was a little bit obnoxious.
Speaker A:And I was really thinking about this as she executed this race.
Speaker A:Her comments afterwards were incredibly gracious.
Speaker A:She was very self effacing.
Speaker A:She's still funny and kind of whack a doodle sometimes and says funny things and I appreciate that about her.
Speaker A:But I just, you can see the maturity over five years of that racing at the highest level of her beginning to appreciate that she's part of this larger racing community and what that means and her responsibilities to everybody else.
Speaker A:And I don't know, I don't know if you've thought of that at all, but I've definitely seen a difference.
Speaker B:Oh no, it's definitely been.
Speaker B:She's incredibly focused and intense on the race course.
Speaker B:When I was in Nice, her boyfriend was across the course from me coming onto the beginning of the run and I was standing with Matt and so Matt was chatting with him and when Taylor came by she had this gigantic lead but she was like super intense and super focused.
Speaker B:That's my lead and who's behind me and he's yelling out all the details and everything else, but she's laser focused.
Speaker B:I was very impressed with how intense she is in the moment and how even with the kind of lead she has, she doesn't relax at all.
Speaker B:And then when you see her after the race and she's just like you said, this kind of wackadoodle, very goofy sort of Persona.
Speaker B:Yeah, no, I agree with you.
Speaker B:I think she's been an interesting study to watch her.
Speaker B:Cause you compare her to Chrissie Wellington who when she came on she was always bubbly and effusive and funny and self deprecating and Taylor didn't necessarily have that, but she does now.
Speaker B:And I think it's been, it's, it has been interesting.
Speaker B:And she's a great champion.
Speaker B:She's won at every distance, she's won in all.
Speaker B:She's Just amazing.
Speaker B:Yeah, it's.
Speaker A:Yeah.
Speaker A:It'll be interesting to see what she decides to do next year because this year she won 70.3 worlds.
Speaker A:She won Kona.
Speaker A:She was what, 13th overall in the world in the time trial.
Speaker A:She raced WTCS earlier this year.
Speaker A:I assume she'll gotten for another Olympics, but she's such a unicorn.
Speaker A:Yeah, she can really do anything.
Speaker A:And kudos also to her team for supporting her and putting her in a position where she can do so well in so many different distances.
Speaker D:Yeah.
Speaker C:Yeah.
Speaker B:It's really incredible generational talent for sure.
Speaker B:Amongst many.
Speaker B:Look at these women who are Laura, Philip to run the way she did and finish second.
Speaker A:Yes.
Speaker B:And Julie Darin, such a beautiful runner.
Speaker B:Oh, amazing.
Speaker A:Julie Darin and Laura are so beautiful.
Speaker A:Although Matthew, we love our boy, but what an unorthodox running style.
Speaker A:And same with Solvig with that leg that kind of spins out to the side.
Speaker B:And Magnus Ditli.
Speaker B:Magnus Ditli looks like a gangly like loping stride, right?
Speaker A:Yeah, yeah, yeah.
Speaker B:No, I agree with you.
Speaker B:Some very odd looking runners.
Speaker B:But I so just thrilled for Matthew.
Speaker B:Matthew is just a wonderful human being.
Speaker A:Especially after that penalty too.
Speaker A:Oh my gosh.
Speaker A:Now it ended up being for drafting, not for littering.
Speaker A:Right.
Speaker A:Because.
Speaker B:Yeah, no, him and Gustav.
Speaker B:Him and Gustav both had three minute penalties.
Speaker B:Four minutes whatever.
Speaker A:Three, three, three, three.
Speaker B:Yeah.
Speaker B:Three minute penalties for drafting.
Speaker B:Didn't see when it happened, but anyways.
Speaker A:No, they can't have the mono everywhere all the time.
Speaker B:All right.
Speaker A:No, lots of fun to watch.
Speaker B:Yeah, it was amazing.
Speaker B:We have a medical mailbag question to answer, so let's get to it.
Speaker B:Juliet, who's the question coming from and what's it going to be about on this episode?
Speaker A:So this comes from our longtime listener and supporter.
Speaker A:Thank you.
Speaker A:Xenia Parker.
Speaker A:And Xenia is curious about what we know about MRNA vaccines versus the more traditional vaccines that we all remember getting growing up.
Speaker A:And as you've explained to me, these MRNA vaccines, really, the first one was with COVID the COVID vaccine.
Speaker A:But since then we've used that same technology and understanding and research to develop these other vaccines which when you and I have talked offline are considered pretty effective.
Speaker A:But it's to someone like me who grew up with the traditional panel that we got and then we gave our kids.
Speaker A:And these are new and a little bit mysterious.
Speaker A:I'm sure there's some controversy out there about them.
Speaker A:But tell us what you know about these vaccines that have really come out in the last.
Speaker A:Ooh, probably Covid Seven.
Speaker A:Six.
Speaker A:Seven years.
Speaker B:Six years, yeah.
Speaker B:Xenia, thank you.
Speaker B:You are a wonderful contributor to the Facebook group.
Speaker B:You are constantly asking medical questions that we've used several times on the program.
Speaker B:So I really thank you for that.
Speaker B:I appreciate it.
Speaker B:Her question stemmed really from the notion of whether or not we should be considering boosters for Covid this year.
Speaker B:And you and I were talking before the you have an athlete that just tested positive.
Speaker B:I ran into an athlete, another life sport athlete in Nice who also tested positive just shortly before the world championships.
Speaker B:And so it is the time of year when we should be thinking about boosters against Covid and certainly flu.
Speaker B:We are seeing a real spike in influenza cases this year.
Speaker B:The flu spike is much earlier than anticipated.
Speaker B:So the advice has been to get a flu vaccine earlier than usual.
Speaker B:Wanted to address her question about whether or not a booster is necessary, recommended, and then what the difference is between the two vaccines that are available right now for flu, which is the traditional kind of inoculation vaccine, versus the MRNA vaccine.
Speaker B:And then Covid is just an MRNA vaccine.
Speaker B:So let's just talk a little bit briefly about the history of vaccination.
Speaker B:Vaccination goes back to the middle ages when smallpox was rampant.
Speaker B:So what happened was I, I should have looked this up before, but I apologize, I can't remember who it was.
Speaker B:But somebody found out that if you took a person who had recovered from smallpox and took their open pustules and inoculated somebody else with that, they would develop a immunity to becoming infected.
Speaker B:They would become resistant to becoming infected themselves.
Speaker B:Nobody understood why or what was going on.
Speaker B:But essentially what you were doing is the person who had recovered from smallpox, their sores contained basically killed virus or particles of the smallpox virus.
Speaker B:And if you then took that and inoculated somebody else, then what you were doing is you were introducing dead virus or virus particles to that non exposed person and their immune system would then react and then recognize the smallpox virus in case they were then ever infected and have a leg up in being able to fight off the virus rather than becoming ill and dying from it.
Speaker B:So that was the first ever vaccine.
Speaker B:It was the first ever inoculation that was ever done.
Speaker B:But it wasn't obviously until the past century when it was really understood what organisms were, what bacteria and viruses were and then how we could actually use attenuated, either live attenuated, which is a virus that has been neutered and is not as pathogenic, or a dead or virus or parts of a virus to prevent infection.
Speaker B:And it was really Jonas salk in the 50s, who developed the polio vaccine, who was the first one to really come up with this idea.
Speaker B:And what he did was he recognized that if he killed the polio virus and then injected it into people, their immune systems would react to it, remember it.
Speaker B:And then if they ever got infected with polio, they would immediately mount a defense so that they didn't become sick.
Speaker B: nd polio was a Scourge in the: Speaker B:I don't know how many people are familiar with the images of children and adults in an iron lung.
Speaker A:Iron lung?
Speaker B:Yeah, the iron lung, basically, because there weren't ventilators at the time.
Speaker B:The iron lung is basically an external ventilator.
Speaker B:We could, I could talk about that.
Speaker B:The iron lung is actually fascinating machine, but not going to go there right now.
Speaker B:Anyways, that was all because poliomyelitis would rob people of their ability to breathe.
Speaker B:And the only way to keep them alive was to use these iron lungs.
Speaker B:And suddenly they were all over the place and those days.
Speaker B:But with the advent of the polio vaccine, polio was essentially wiped out and there was no more polio.
Speaker B:It was amazing.
Speaker A:So was that the very first one?
Speaker B:That was the first, that was the first widely available vaccine.
Speaker B:You won the Nobel Prize for it.
Speaker B:It was a big deal.
Speaker B:And it was followed fairly rapid succession over the next couple of decades with measles, mumps, rubella, which is German measles, and then diphtheria, tetanus.
Speaker B:All of those were developed pretty quickly.
Speaker B:Yeah.
Speaker B:And then we started to see, more recently in the last couple of decades, we started to see vaccines against things like haemophilus influenza B, which is a bacteria that when I was a medical student, caused meningitis amongst infants constantly.
Speaker B:Meningitis, pneumonia, just horrible infections.
Speaker B:And when the Hib vaccine, as it's known, was developed, it just erased those infections.
Speaker B:It was amazing how almost overnight we stopped seeing babies coming into the emergency department with meningitis.
Speaker B:It was crazy.
Speaker B:And now we have vaccines for hepatitis, we have vaccines for all kinds of stuff.
Speaker D:Chickenpox.
Speaker B:Chickenpox.
Speaker B:And people think, oh, chickenpox, not a big deal.
Speaker B:That's because you haven't had chickenpox or you haven't had a kid who has chickenpox.
Speaker B:Chickenpox, number one, is a miserable illness and number two is associated with some pretty significant complications.
Speaker B:And then for you and I, who had chickenpox as a kid, we have that virus dormant in our nervous system and can develop a devastating long term effect which is shingles.
Speaker B:Fortunately, we now have a shingles vaccine as well.
Speaker A:Shingles vaccine.
Speaker B:So a very effective vaccine.
Speaker A:All right.
Speaker B:So all of this to say vaccine technology is amazing.
Speaker B:It's incredible.
Speaker B:All of this rubbish, and I wanna be very clear, all of this BS rubbish about vaccines being dangerous, causing autism, all of this silliness has been disproven many times over.
Speaker B:And I'm not gonna pay any lip service to it or any time dedicated to it.
Speaker B:Just suffice it to say it's been a million times over shown that vaccines are safe, they go through rigorous testing, and they have saved innumerable lives.
Speaker B:We now have.
Speaker B: We had Covid in: Speaker B:It was miraculous that we were able to develop a vaccine so quickly to prevent ongoing death and disability from that vaccine.
Speaker B:And the reason we were able to was because of a brand new way of creating vaccines.
Speaker B:So in the past, as I mentioned, we had basically, we had these different ways of making vaccines.
Speaker B:You either had a live attenuated virus, which was a virus that's been neutered of its ability to cause significant illness.
Speaker B:You had killed viruses which were viral particles that didn't do anything.
Speaker B:They were inert, or you had segments or little pieces of viruses that your immune system would recognize.
Speaker B:All of these have benefits.
Speaker B:All of these have detriment.
Speaker B:They're not all great.
Speaker B:Some of them work for some things better than others.
Speaker B:The influenza virus.
Speaker B:The problem with influenza is that influenza mutates very rapidly every year.
Speaker B:And that's why you need a flu shot every year.
Speaker B:It's because every single year, the influenza virus has mutated.
Speaker B:We base our virus on what's happened in Australia over the summer because they're the same.
Speaker A:Oh, is that how it works?
Speaker A:I've always wondered.
Speaker B:Okay, so their flu season is over the summer, and we our summer.
Speaker B:And so when they're getting flu in their winter, we are isolating that strain and we are developing vaccines for it because we know that's what's coming to us in the winter.
Speaker A:And when you say we, you mean American flu.
Speaker B:North America.
Speaker B:Yeah, the northern hemisphere.
Speaker A:Yeah.
Speaker A:Okay.
Speaker B:And then when our virus hits, because whether or not we're gonna be right, it's always hit and miss because the virus mutates between the summer and the winter.
Speaker B:So when our flu season hits, like right now, our flu season is hitting, so our viral particles are being isolated and the people in Australia are starting to develop vaccines for it so that when their fall comes around, they will have a vaccine against what's hitting us.
Speaker A:Now that's Nuts.
Speaker B:The problem with that is, like I said, the vaccine is not always effective because between the time that the vaccine is made and the time that the virus actually hits, there's an interval there, there may be further mutations, and therefore the vaccine may not be 100%.
Speaker B:So this new technology was developed at the time of COVID and it's called MRNA vaccine.
Speaker B:So MRNA stands for messenger rna.
Speaker B:So within your cells, you have genetic material.
Speaker B:Our genetic code is written in a double helix stranded molecule called DNA.
Speaker B:Deoxyribonucleic acid.
Speaker B:Right.
Speaker B:And then DNA is read and transcribed into rna, which is ribonucleic acid.
Speaker B:RNA is then read by a intracellular organelle called a ribosome to make proteins.
Speaker B:Messenger RNA is a small snippet of RNA and it can code for a protein.
Speaker B:So over the last several decades, people have been investigating whether or not we can take a small snippet of messenger RNA and insert it into a cell and make the cell create the protein that RNA codes for.
Speaker B:For example, we know that influenza has on its surface all of these little protein spikes.
Speaker B:And that's what our immune system recognizes, and that's what our immune system reacts to.
Speaker B:So what if we had a little piece of RNA that coded for that protein spike?
Speaker B:So you would insert it into the cell, would start generating all these little protein spikes.
Speaker B:The protein spikes would then be presented on the cell surface.
Speaker B:Your immune cells would recognize it, would take a picture of it, remember it, and then the next time they see those spikes on an actual influenza virus, they would react on force, en masse, and you would not get an influenza infection.
Speaker B:And the benefit of an MRNA vaccine working in this way is because the MRNA gets inserted into your cell and it gets inserted into a huge number of cells.
Speaker B:You have a huge number of cells making a huge number of these proteins.
Speaker B:You get a huge immune response.
Speaker B:When you do a vaccine with a attenuated virus, let's say you do a attenuated virus, there's a million little viral particles in there.
Speaker B:Those million viral particles are dead.
Speaker B:They're inert.
Speaker B:They don't reproduce.
Speaker B:Nothing happens.
Speaker B:Once your immune system has seen those million little particles, that's it, they're gone.
Speaker B:But with mRNA, that MRNA is going to keep making those protein spikes for days.
Speaker B:You may make tens of millions of those spikes.
Speaker B:Your immune system is going to know those spikes so well that they are going to be absolutely drilled.
Speaker B:They will recognize them so much faster and so much better.
Speaker B:So the RNA vaccines are theoretically much more effective in that way.
Speaker B:They Train your immune system better.
Speaker B:There were a lot of problems with developing RNA vaccines.
Speaker B:It was hard because RNA itself is very immunogenic.
Speaker B:So when RNA is inserted into the bloodstream, the white blood cells would just freak out and just destroy the rna.
Speaker B:And we had to get past that.
Speaker B:So we came up with a way to actually shelter the RNA inside these little fat globules called nanoliposomal particles, basically.
Speaker B:And these nanoliposomal particles fuse with the cell membrane and allow the RNA into the cell.
Speaker B:So that was the first major breakthrough that came through.
Speaker B:And there was a host of other issues that had to be overcome for these vaccines to be effective and to actually be usable.
Speaker B:But with COVID it was proved that they were safe, they were effective.
Speaker B:There's these thoughts that, oh, the RNA is like genetic material.
Speaker B:It can be inserted into our genes.
Speaker B:No, it cannot.
Speaker B:RNA is not DNA.
Speaker B:RNA doesn't get into your DNA.
Speaker B:The RNA from the vaccine is there for 24 to 48 hours.
Speaker B:It then gets naturally degenerated and it's gone, and that's the end of it.
Speaker B:So it is not long lasting.
Speaker B:There, there were.
Speaker B:Initially, with the initial COVID vaccine, there did seem to be some issues related to vaccine adverse effects.
Speaker B:There are always adverse effects with vaccine.
Speaker B:It wasn't that unusual that the COVID vaccine had some adverse effects, but later versions of the COVID vaccine have not been associated with that.
Speaker B:Instead, I will tell you, I just had my Covid and flu MRNA vaccines.
Speaker B:I was knocked on my back for 24 to 48 hours.
Speaker B:That's as bad as it was.
Speaker B:I felt pretty lousy as my immune system was really ramped up.
Speaker A:I had mine last Friday and there was no effect whatsoever.
Speaker A:I get lucky with these.
Speaker B:Do you know which ones you had?
Speaker A:I just know.
Speaker A:I made triple sure that it was this year's Covid.
Speaker B:But was it the flu?
Speaker B:Was it the regular flu, or was it the MRNA flu?
Speaker A:See, I didn't even know to ask that question, so I don't know.
Speaker B:So most people are not getting the MRNA flu because it's not as widely available.
Speaker B:I asked specifically to have it, and I think that's what really made me feel unwell.
Speaker A:I see.
Speaker A:Okay, I'll ask the next time I go.
Speaker B:So those are the basic differences in terms of how they work.
Speaker B:Then the question becomes, does it matter which one you get for Covid?
Speaker B:There really is only the mRNA.
Speaker B:That's the main one.
Speaker B:I think there is a viral particle COVID vaccine.
Speaker B:Now, the question of should you get it?
Speaker B:It is recommended Covid mutates pretty much the same way influenza does.
Speaker B:So every year, Covid is going to be different than it was the year before.
Speaker B:COVID is nasty.
Speaker B:Even if you've had it before, it can still be nasty.
Speaker B:It's still responsible for a fair amount of morbidity and mortality, especially as you age.
Speaker B:And while the vaccines are not 100%, the vaccines are known to dramatically decrease the severity of illness, the likelihood of developing long Covid and the likelihood of hospitalization or death, which to me are all significant.
Speaker B:Long Covid especially, big deal.
Speaker B:And we know that vaccination dramatically decreases the risk of long Covid, so to me, that's a big winner.
Speaker B:The regular flu vaccine this year is felt to be reasonably effective.
Speaker B:The MRNA flu vaccine is showing about 37% improved efficacy over the regular flu vaccine.
Speaker A:Oh, wow.
Speaker B:Okay, so there is a reason if you're in an environment where you think you might gonna come across influenza.
Speaker B:Look, I didn't mind feeling sick for a couple.
Speaker B:I didn't love it.
Speaker B:But you know what?
Speaker B:I'd rather be feel ill for a couple of days and not be too worried about influenza or Covid because I feel more protected.
Speaker B:I could still get both of those, but the likelihood of getting them in any severe fashion is significantly lower.
Speaker B:And I feel pretty good about that.
Speaker A:The symptoms are reduced, yet you have had the vaccines.
Speaker B:Correct.
Speaker B:So symptoms are reduced.
Speaker A:Is that true for flu as well?
Speaker B:Yes.
Speaker B:Yeah.
Speaker B:And you're less infectious.
Speaker A:Yeah.
Speaker B:So you're less of a danger to people around you if you get it.
Speaker B:So lots of reasons.
Speaker B:So the vaccines are effective, they're safe, they reduce your illness.
Speaker B:If you get infected, they reduce your infectiousness to others.
Speaker B:There really is.
Speaker B:The downside is that you don't feel great for a day or two.
Speaker B:Now, that was me.
Speaker B:You felt fine, you had nothing.
Speaker B:So my daughter had them, she had a sore arm.
Speaker B:That was it.
Speaker B:Everybody's different.
Speaker A:Are there any.
Speaker A:So two questions.
Speaker A:Are there any downsides that we know of with these MRNA vaccines?
Speaker A:That's the first question.
Speaker A:Second question is, if the MRNA vaccines are more effective, are we going to see the traditional vaccines move over to an arm MRNA format?
Speaker B:So thus far there's no downsides.
Speaker B:The problem is that the current political environment in this country has made the MRNA vaccines a.
Speaker A:Yeah, certainly.
Speaker A:Certainly there were people right from the get go who were anti vaxx for a whole bunch of reasons.
Speaker A:But as far as we know so far there's no nothing.
Speaker B:And in fact, MRNA vaccines are being used against cancer effectively.
Speaker B:Yeah.
Speaker B:You can develop and the thing about MRNA vaccines, in a beaker, you can make a million doses in a couple of hours.
Speaker B:It is incred.
Speaker B:And the flu vaccine, you need to use eggs to cultivate them, and then within the egg, there's the potential of getting further mutations of the virus, beyond which it no longer is effective.
Speaker B:Plus, you have people who have egg allergies that can't get the flu vaccine.
Speaker B:So there's actually more problems with the normal flu than there are with the MRNA vaccine.
Speaker B:But there's this silly misinformation and disinformation around the MRNA vaccines that are muddying the waters.
Speaker A:So do you think that the more traditional vaccines are going to move to this type of format or are we just going to keep.
Speaker B:Hard to say, because when you've got something that's just so effective, like the MMR is incredibly effective, incredibly safe, very cheap to produce, switching over to an MRNA would probably not be reasonable.
Speaker B:It's more expensive.
Speaker B:So when you've got something that works, you probably.
Speaker B:You would have to show that something else was better in order to change over.
Speaker B:Yeah.
Speaker B:We know in the first studies that have compared the MRNA flu to the regular flu, it appears the MRNA flu is better.
Speaker B:Now, it doesn't mean you have to run out and get the mRNA.
Speaker B:You can get the traditional flu vaccine and you will get coverage this year.
Speaker B:But the MRNA does allow for kind of more coverage this year.
Speaker B:It seems to be more efficient and more effective, but that's not necessarily always going to be the case.
Speaker A:Yeah.
Speaker A:And look, on Friday, I went to Safeway to get milk and eggs, and the vaccines are right there at the back of Safeway.
Speaker A:I waited an extra 10 minutes.
Speaker A:I got my vaccines.
Speaker A:It was free.
Speaker A:Yeah, we couldn't make it easier to get these vaccines.
Speaker A:So you don't have to make an appointment or anything, just.
Speaker B:And I would say there are people who really.
Speaker B:Look, there's a lot of people out there who are gonna be like, I'm young, I don't need this.
Speaker B:Yeah, it's hard for me to.
Speaker B:I have lots of arguments for that.
Speaker B:I think everybody needs it.
Speaker B:But fine, if that's your argument, if you have young children, you should get this.
Speaker B:If you have elderly parents, you should get this.
Speaker B:If you yourself are over the age of 50, you should get this.
Speaker B:If you're gonna tell me you're 25, you don't have elderly parents that you're around, you don't have young kids, and you're willing to just deal with influenza if you get it, that's up to you, the reality is influenza is no fun.
Speaker B:Influenza, if you're 25, will knock you on your butt for a good seven to 10 days.
Speaker B:You will not be happy.
Speaker B:It's a roll of the dice.
Speaker B:So it's really up to you.
Speaker B:Covid's not that much better.
Speaker B:Covid is also not fun.
Speaker B:But again, vaccines are not just.
Speaker A:I will.
Speaker A:I will say that I.
Speaker A:You are in the medical establishment, so of course you got all these vaccines.
Speaker A:But I'm trying to.
Speaker A:I don't think I got a flu vaccine.
Speaker A:Teens through.
Speaker B:Oh, yeah, I know.
Speaker A:Early 30s, because I just wasn't.
Speaker A:I just wasn't thinking about it.
Speaker A:And so I. I know.
Speaker A:I understand that demographic.
Speaker B:Totally get it.
Speaker B:I totally get it.
Speaker A:Supermarket's pretty easy to get.
Speaker B:The fact that it's so prevalent and so easy to get and the fact that it does not just protect you, but protect others, I think is a worthwhile consideration.
Speaker A:Yeah.
Speaker B:All right.
Speaker A:Well, they'll all get flew once and then they'll realize, yeah, it's so much easier just to get a shot.
Speaker A:Or maybe they'll need to get it twice.
Speaker B:And there's this myth that the influenza vaccine can give you the flu.
Speaker B:Not true.
Speaker B:The flu vaccine can make you feel unwell.
Speaker B:It can make you feel like you have the flu for one or two days.
Speaker B:That's your immune system reacting to the vaccine the way it's supposed to, but you don't actually have the flu.
Speaker B:That's what I got.
Speaker B:Thank you so much, Sarah Lopez, for doing the research on this episode.
Speaker B:I really appreciate you.
Speaker B:She did a great job on this.
Speaker B:And thank you so much, Xenia, for sending in the question.
Speaker B:I hope this got you all the answers you were looking for.
Speaker B:If you have a question that you would like to hear answered on the medical mailbag on a future episode, I hope that you will send it on in.
Speaker B:We are in need of questions.
Speaker B:We've had a few sent in recently, but we're always looking for more.
Speaker B:You could send me an email tridocloud.com you could head on over to the private Facebook group.
Speaker B:If you're not already a member, please search for it.
Speaker B:Tridock podcast on Facebook.
Speaker B:Answer the three easy questions.
Speaker B:I'll gain you admittance.
Speaker B:We would love to have you as part of the conversation.
Speaker B:You can also submit your questions there.
Speaker B:Juliet, thank you so much for being here.
Speaker B:Thanks for chatting about Kona a little bit and glad you got your vaccines and we will talk to you again soon.
Speaker A:We'll see you next time.
Speaker A:Bye Bye.
Speaker B:My guest on the podcast today is someone I am sure you have heard of, even if you don't maybe recognize his name.
Speaker B:Matt Fitzgerald is one of the most recognizable and respected voices in endurance sport.
Speaker B:He's an accomplished author, coach, journalist and certified sports nutritionist.
Speaker B:He has spent more than two decades exploring what makes endurance athletes successful.
Speaker B:He's the best selling author of more than 20 books including 80 20, running, racing, weight, How Bad do youo Want It?
Speaker B:Iron War and many others.
Speaker B:He also has appeared in publications including Outside Runner's World, Bicycling, Men's Health, and Triathlete.
Speaker B: Matt is also a co founder of: Speaker B:His work combines practical coaching experience with a deep interest in the science and psychology of endurance performance.
Speaker B:A lifelong endurance athlete himself, he continues to run and race while writing about training, nutrition, performance and the mental side of sport.
Speaker B:His most recent effort though has arguably been his most challenging and he details that struggle in his most recent work that he graciously sent to me a book that I'm holding here in my very hands called Dying to Run.
Speaker B:And it is for that reason that he is joining me on the podcast today to discuss the travails that led him to write this book.
Speaker B:Matt Fitzgerald, thank you so much for joining me on the Tridoc podcast today.
Speaker D:Thank you for having me.
Speaker D:Thank you for that very nice thorough introduction.
Speaker B:I will admit being a very busy guy.
Speaker B:I got your book.
Speaker B:Thank you so much for sending it to me.
Speaker B:I am going to take it with me when I go to Nice next week and plan to give it a reading while I am traveling.
Speaker B:But I have not yet read it.
Speaker B:I did read the copy on the back and I understand what the story is about.
Speaker B:Why don't you tell the listeners what is dying to Run about?
Speaker B:What prompted you to write it?
Speaker D:Yeah, it's about my journey through Long Covid, a type of post viral chronic illness that you know as a lifelong runner there are a lot of diseases you don't want to get if you're an endurance athlete.
Speaker D:Long Covid and the like are pretty close to the top of the list.
Speaker D:Very debilitating poly systemic fatigue based illness that makes exercise even close to impossible when you're in the depths of it.
Speaker D:And I was 49 years old when I developed this condition, lost the ability to run and went more than three years without being able to run.
Speaker D:Desperately wanting to.
Speaker D:Running is in my blood.
Speaker D:It means so much to me and it was.
Speaker D:It was tough to have it taken away and wanted to get back, but assumed I had to recover before I could get back.
Speaker D:And then came to a point where I decided, you know what, screw it, I'm just going to run one more race just to say goodbye properly.
Speaker D:Because I hated that I got sick right after I DNF'd in my first attempt to run 100km in a trail ultramarathon.
Speaker D:And when that happened, I was mad at myself, but I thought, oh, there'll be other chances.
Speaker D:And then I got sick right after that and I just had this unfinished business, this monkey on my back.
Speaker D:And I told a New York Times writer who came out to profile me right after I had signed up for the javelin 100.
Speaker D:I told him, I'm doing this not because I am recovering, but because I'm not recovering.
Speaker D:It had to be 100km because that was the distance I had failed at.
Speaker D:So I didn't see anything past this one race.
Speaker D:It was just, I need to finish this journey on my terms.
Speaker D:So the, the book really just documents the race.
Speaker D:You're thrown into this fog of war type of situation where this man, this middle aged man, completely deconditioned, who's lost everything fitness wise and to a degree health wise too, just gives the double middle finger to his disease.
Speaker D:I'm going to do exactly the worst thing I could possibly do for someone in my estate and I'm not going to regret it, regardless of whether I finish or die trying.
Speaker B:I'm glad to report that you did not die trying because you're here talking to us today.
Speaker B:So that's a good thing.
Speaker B:We are all endurance addicts.
Speaker B:We all know what it's like to have injury and illness.
Speaker B:One of the questions I face all the time as a coach for my athletes is the text message, oh, I'm sick, can I do my workout anyways?
Speaker B:Or can I train while I'm sick?
Speaker B:Or am I going to get sicker if I train?
Speaker B:Things like that.
Speaker B:And I'm sure as a coach you deal with that all the time as well.
Speaker B:Here you are, someone who probably is loathe to really give up long periods and now all of a sudden you're forced like this was just something you just were not able to come back with.
Speaker B:What did it feel like on a day to day basis?
Speaker B:Because we've talked about COVID a lot on this program as you might imagine as we went through it, me and my listeners together as we were learning things, I remember early on saying things like, oh no, don't wear masks, there's no Evidence for that.
Speaker B:And then as the evidence came out, I quickly reversed course.
Speaker B:We were learning as we were going along.
Speaker B:What was your experience of learning about long Covid as someone suffering from it?
Speaker D:Yeah, because I got sick very early in the pandemic and it was just the wild west in terms of like understanding what was going on.
Speaker D:A novel pathogen.
Speaker D:So like there was lot to learn about.
Speaker D:This is not flu, this is not cold.
Speaker D:It presents in similar ways, but it's like it's something a little bit different.
Speaker D:And then a few months passed and then you have this like sub pandemic of people who don't recover from the virus.
Speaker D:And so that was this whole new learning curve.
Speaker D:And I happened to draw the short straw and ended up even with the acute infection, I had never been sicker.
Speaker D:I broke a rib, coughing, it was, yeah, it was intense.
Speaker D:But appeared to recover and did from the acute illness and this whole set of chronic symptoms.
Speaker D:And then it's just weird different stuff because I've always been a cougher with a bad flu.
Speaker D:I coughed as a kid.
Speaker D:That was nothing new.
Speaker D:The chronic stuff was just weird in like a spine tingling way.
Speaker D:Like neuropathy, just like pins and needles, like painful numbness all over my body.
Speaker D:I'd never experienced that before.
Speaker D:And post exertional malaise, just like feeling like you've been poisoned, like after going for an easy 45 minute run.
Speaker D:I never experienced anything like that before.
Speaker D:I knew this was serious and different, but it took a long time.
Speaker D:I had been exposed to wildfire smoke in California, where I was living at the time that year.
Speaker D:And I initially blamed it on like that just inhalation of particulates, which I think was actually the trigger for the onset of the chronic phase.
Speaker D:But it wasn't.
Speaker D:Turned out not to be the problem in itself.
Speaker D:So I'm just learning on the fly.
Speaker D:And I self diagnosed.
Speaker D:I never had a physician diagnose me as having long Covid.
Speaker D:I figured it out and I was I long Covid.
Speaker D:Like I knew I was in for a very long ride and it was like a race without a finish line.
Speaker B:And now that you're six years past it, has it resolved?
Speaker B:Because we know that long Covid can be that very long.
Speaker B:It can be, we don't know.
Speaker B:There are some people who continue to have symptoms.
Speaker B:Have your symptoms abated?
Speaker B:Have they improved?
Speaker B:Where are you at?
Speaker D:Yeah, in my book I refer to recovery as the R word because as part of this crash course in virology and epidemiology and autoimmune diseases, and all that stuff, you go into it very naive.
Speaker D:It's oh yeah, you get sick and then you recover.
Speaker D:That's all I knew.
Speaker D:And this was very different.
Speaker D:Even with the initial virus, I appeared to be on track toward recovery three times and then went back down the ladder again.
Speaker D:So with the chronic stuff, I documented 35 different symptoms that I experienced.
Speaker D:35, And I stopped counting there.
Speaker D:And there are more than 200 documented symptoms of long Covid.
Speaker D:So what is recovery?
Speaker D:There's no cure.
Speaker D:It's even poorly understood.
Speaker D:Long Covid is nested inside that whole panoply of post viral, most autoimmune diseases.
Speaker D:They are post viral illnesses.
Speaker D:It's a thing in your body that doesn't belong there.
Speaker D:This stuff is much more nebulous and hard.
Speaker D:It's nailing jelly to the ceiling.
Speaker D:What is it even?
Speaker D:What, what does recovery even mean when you've had 35 symptoms of various intensity over time?
Speaker D:So for me, thankfully, I have made a lot of progress over six years, most of it within the last two and a half years.
Speaker D:So it was a long period of actually getting progressively worse.
Speaker D:I not only couldn't exercise for a period of time, I couldn't work, I couldn't do desk work.
Speaker D:I was like quasi housebound for a period of time at 50 years old.
Speaker D:Tough stuff.
Speaker D:And so, yeah, I'm much better than that.
Speaker D:But even today I've experienced post exertional malaise because I'm trying to exercise and you get just this kind of like wallop after the fact.
Speaker D:Hard to describe malaise.
Speaker D:Sounds like fatigue.
Speaker D:But it's different.
Speaker D:It's more like the body aches that you get with flu or something like that.
Speaker D:Very unpleasant.
Speaker D:I have GI stuff still.
Speaker D:I still have neuropathy.
Speaker D:So I functionally, I am much, much better.
Speaker D:I can run, I can train, and I'm willing to deal with the payback in terms of recovery is just.
Speaker D:It sucks a lot more with this thing.
Speaker D:I'll take it.
Speaker A:Yeah.
Speaker B:And early on we learned that people who were active and exercised before they got Covid tended to be better off.
Speaker B:They tended to have less likely have severe Covid and also then less likely to get long Covid.
Speaker B:But for the people who got long Covid, it turned out that exercise was worse.
Speaker B:It actually made long Covid worse.
Speaker B:And that was just tragic because here you are, somebody who makes so much of their life being active and now that's just, you're robbed of that.
Speaker B:And that's got to have mental health issues for you as well, I would imagine.
Speaker D:Oh, big time for me running in particular, but exercise in general, a full blown dependency.
Speaker D:But there's a lot of baggage with that word, but we gotta depend on something.
Speaker D:We depend on food, right?
Speaker D:And by and large it was a very healthy dependency for me.
Speaker D:And it went beyond even physical and mental.
Speaker D: ran was the last mile of the: Speaker D: e freaking finish line of the: Speaker D:That's why I became a runner.
Speaker D:So that's deep stuff.
Speaker D:I used to.
Speaker D:He would let me tag along for the occasional training run with him in roads in the forested area in New Hampshire where I grew up.
Speaker D:And so that's where it goes back that deep.
Speaker D:And then I ended up making a career of it and continued to be a competitive athlete.
Speaker D:And I don't have children.
Speaker D:My wife and I never had kids.
Speaker D:And if being perfectly honest, part of the reason is that running was so important to me that it had to be the center of my life.
Speaker D:And I doubted whether I could be a great dad the way my dad had been to me being that self centered in that way, that is how much running meant to me.
Speaker D:So yeah, you better believe I had mental health struggles when that was taken away from me.
Speaker D:I had been injured plenty.
Speaker D:And I'm a big boy.
Speaker D:I know how to suck it up.
Speaker D:But this was like a different level of having to suck it up.
Speaker D:And I struggled.
Speaker D:But I, I'm a stoic.
Speaker D:Stoicism is a big theme in the book I wrote.
Speaker D:So I'm not one to throw pity parties.
Speaker D:And I do believe in sucking it up.
Speaker D:And so I did the best I could.
Speaker D:It was definitely, my wife would tell you, ugly at times.
Speaker D:But I was never lowering my standards for myself as a man.
Speaker D:It was just, hey, this is life.
Speaker D:You're gonna get T boned by some kind of health something sooner or later.
Speaker D:No one celebrates their 200th birthday.
Speaker D:So it's coming for you and do the best you can.
Speaker D:And for me, what I ended up coming, the place I came to, it's not enough for me to just survive to give the double middle finger to this disease that I really want to give.
Speaker D:I have to aim higher than mere survival.
Speaker D: why, you know, New Year's Eve: Speaker D:I stayed up till midnight and signed up for the javelin.
Speaker D:100, 100 Kilometers, the same distance I had failed at right before I got sick.
Speaker D:And I was just gonna roll the dice.
Speaker D:But you know what?
Speaker D:Honestly, I told everyone I think I have a 10% chance of making it to the start line given where I am and how far I have to go.
Speaker D:But it didn't matter.
Speaker D:When I woke up on New Year's Day, I had already won in my mind because that excitement of just having something big in front of me, that's.
Speaker D:That was like a drug for me.
Speaker D:I always had some big race out there.
Speaker D:I was always feeling like, I'm on, I'm ascending, I'm getting better.
Speaker D:And I had that back.
Speaker D:And that was the whole point of it.
Speaker D:It didn't really matter to me whether I finished the race or even started the race.
Speaker D:What mattered was like giving everything I had, being the newer, better, stronger self I had to become through facing this illness.
Speaker D:I had won already and it didn't really matter how it ended.
Speaker D:What mattered was like me reclaiming my identity and what made me now 100km.
Speaker B:Is a huge undertaking for the, the person who's well trained and fit and able bodied and ready to go for someone who was in the kind of condition you were in, it's, I would imagine a lot of people thought not maybe a decision made of sound mind.
Speaker B:So what did you have to.
Speaker B:What did your wife think?
Speaker B:What did your support team think?
Speaker B:What were the betting odds at that point about you getting through 10km, never mind a hundred?
Speaker D:Yeah, yeah, certainly I was conscious of that.
Speaker D:I didn't want anyone to think it was a suicide mission.
Speaker D:Not to use that phrase glibly, like at all.
Speaker D:I wanted, this was like a gesture toward life for me, not a gesture toward death or self harm.
Speaker D:Even so, for sure it was a risky goal to set.
Speaker D:Each of us is.
Speaker D:We're allowed that as individual human beings.
Speaker D:Like we're allowed to decide our comfort level with risk.
Speaker D:We have to demand that for ourselves while also being responsible to our relationships.
Speaker D:I'm about to celebrate my 25th wedding anniversary with my wife.
Speaker D:I really want to be around for our 40th wedding anniversary.
Speaker D:So I wasn't out to kill myself, but it was like, certainly to my knowledge, nobody with unresolved long Covid or chronic fatigue syndrome had attempted 100 kilometer trail race in what ended up being a record heat day, 99 degrees Fahrenheit, peak temperature in the Sonoran Desert.
Speaker D:A big part of what the book is about is the soul searching I do because I felt so powerfully compelled to make this irrational decision.
Speaker D:And I would be lying if I said I knew why I Did it.
Speaker D:It was just like this thing I felt compelled to do.
Speaker D:I had some vague notion, but it was only after I had done it and committed and oh shit, I've got to actually figure this out that I, I started to do the introspection.
Speaker D:What kind of person would take this kind of risk?
Speaker D:Why would running enclosure matter so much?
Speaker D:And so, yeah, I'm still not entirely sure, but like having made a very risky, borderline dangerous choice, I tried to make only super rational, sane, smart decisions in pursuit of that goal.
Speaker D:That was the only way it was going to happen.
Speaker D:This wasn't like mind over matter.
Speaker D:My body was calling the shots and it was very unpredictable and I didn't really like the shots that it was calling for the most part.
Speaker D:So I couldn't out grit my disease.
Speaker D:I had to outsmart it to get through this thing.
Speaker D:That was just another level to it for me because, yeah, the odds were.
Speaker D:You said, what were the betting odds?
Speaker D:They were very much against me, even in my own mind.
Speaker D:As I just said, I didn't even anticipate success.
Speaker D:Success for me was trying.
Speaker D:But I went about.
Speaker D:I had been running, I've been an endurance athlete for 40 plus years.
Speaker D:I had been a coach for 20 plus years.
Speaker D:I'd written 30 plus books on endurance sports and training.
Speaker D:And for me it's like, this is a really cool opportunity.
Speaker D:It's an intellectual challenge.
Speaker D:I want to go beyond.
Speaker D:I want to get a double black belt.
Speaker D:If I'm a black belt, I want to get out because I would have to become a double black belt in order to solve this particular puzzle and be able to cross that final finish line.
Speaker B:At what point during the day did you start to believe?
Speaker B:Is it one of these things where, oh, the first 5k actually went okay, this is going to be okay.
Speaker B:Or was it one of those things where, oh, no, you had to run 95 to believe you could run the last five?
Speaker D:I had 10 months to prepare.
Speaker D: at midnight on New Year's Eve: Speaker D: e race was Halloween weekend,: Speaker D:So I had 10 months and I needed every day of those 10 months.
Speaker D:And things went much better than expected.
Speaker D:I had major setbacks, but overall, like, I thought I'm gonna have to walk the whole thing going into it.
Speaker D:It's like, because I couldn't even walk two miles at the start of this thing.
Speaker D:I had 29 hours to get it done, whether it was walking or running, some, some combination of the two.
Speaker D:So that was my thought going into it, but things went better than expected overall in the training.
Speaker D:And when I started the race I knew I was able to run at least the first lap of what is a, a five lap race, which would be the first 22 miles.
Speaker D:I knew I could at least run 22 miles.
Speaker D:And this is hilly trails and it is in a record breaking desert heat wave.
Speaker D:So the problem for me is that at the core of, of long covet and similar diseases is dysregulation of the autonomic nervous system.
Speaker D:And so for me that's why exercise is already, it's not, you know, you can actually describe exercise as toxic to the body of a person in the state because if you jog a mile your body thinks you've sprinted a marathon.
Speaker D:It's autonomic hyperactivity is what it's called.
Speaker D:It's just, just, just responding beyond all proportion to threats or imperceived threats.
Speaker D:And exercise is a stressor and so it's perceived as a threat.
Speaker D:So I had that working against me.
Speaker D:And then heat exposure.
Speaker D:People with long Covid have dysautonomia so we can't thermo regulate normally.
Speaker D:We don't sweat right.
Speaker D:We can have different temperatures on the left and right sides of our body.
Speaker D:Just weird stuff.
Speaker D:And three weeks before the javelin 100 I ran the Flagstaff Marathon up here in Flagstaff where I'm talking to you from the most brutal marathon I've ever run.
Speaker D:Starts at 8,000ft and goes up all on trails.
Speaker D:And I suffered what I later realized was an episode of autonomic hyperactivity during that race where my heart rate is pinned at 181 beats per minute.
Speaker D:And I'm walking and it won't come down and I'm hyperventilating and it won't come down.
Speaker D:My entire left leg went that kind of pins and needles.
Speaker D:Neuropathic numbness.
Speaker D:It's like numb painful where you have to look down to make sure your left foot is actually hitting the ground because you can't really feel it properly.
Speaker D:And so I knew that's probably what's going to happen.
Speaker D:This was a marathon and it was at 83 degrees Fahrenheit.
Speaker D:I was going to run more than two times that distance at 99 degrees Fahrenheit.
Speaker D:So I knew that's probably going to happen.
Speaker D:And sure enough, it did.
Speaker D:So getting back to your question, like, how did it unfold?
Speaker D:Yeah, it started off fine.
Speaker D:You know, it was seven in the morning, it wasn't that hot yet.
Speaker D:I had fresh legs, my training had gone Better than expected.
Speaker D:I was a shadow of the athlete I had once been, but at least a shadow.
Speaker D:So first lap went fine and then I had two and a half full blown episodes of that autonomic hyperactivity.
Speaker D:And that actually can kill you because it's a kind of shock.
Speaker D:I didn't get close to dying, but I sure felt like I was dying.
Speaker D:I got to a point where my pacer, my best friend who'd been my co captain in high school running cross country New Hampshire, he came out because that's the other thing.
Speaker D:I had a community around me for this thing because my closest friends, my running community, understood how much this meant for me and that it was like a final bow.
Speaker D:So I had a great support team there with me, led by my oldest friend, Mike Holmes from the New Hampshire days.
Speaker D:And when he paced me in the final lap, he was carrying a SATCOM device because I to make special precautions because of my health status.
Speaker D:I had gamed out the nearest hospital.
Speaker D:What would be the medevac situation if I did heal over.
Speaker D:And my friend said he kept a good poker face during that final lap when he paced me.
Speaker D:But he told me afterwards I was this close to calling for a helicopter.
Speaker D:So it was hardcore and it was, it was up and down.
Speaker D:And that's the thing because that, that threat response that your nervous system goes into, there is no tumor, right?
Speaker D:There's nothing actually wrong with you.
Speaker D:It's your body kind of mutinying on itself.
Speaker D:So it's like a switch.
Speaker D:And it did go back and forth during the race.
Speaker B:Wow.
Speaker B:It's quite a story of resilience and perseverance and just mental fortitude.
Speaker B:And I am very much looking forward to reading about it.
Speaker B:Clearly, this wasn't the final bow, this wasn't the end of the story for you because you said you are continuing to run.
Speaker B:So what does the current version of you look like and what does the future hold?
Speaker D:Yeah, it's tough because something else I get into in the book is that when you develop long Covid or a similar type of illness and they're tough to diagnose a lot of these things and you have abnormal heart behavior or shortness of breath.
Speaker D:So you have heart tests and you have lung function tests.
Speaker D:And with me, with long Covid, I had this whole battery of tests like trying to figure out what was wrong with me and I ended up being diagnosed with heart disease like as a just a separate issue.
Speaker D:And unfortunately that has progressed like quite a bit since that first discovery, which wouldn't have happened Even to this day, possibly because I'm not symptomatic.
Speaker D:I don't have angina or anything like that.
Speaker D:Jeff Browning, my fellow Flag Safian elite ultra trail runner, just had a heart attack running utmb.
Speaker D:He's the same age as me and as far as I know, Jeff, he had no idea.
Speaker D:He had no idea this thing.
Speaker D:And that could be the case with me if not for the battery of tests I had undergone in the effort to figure out what was wrong with me.
Speaker D:I made it back much further than I ever thought I could.
Speaker D:I was pretty despairing in the darkest days that I would ever recover.
Speaker D:But I do have this other thing kind of lingering over me.
Speaker D:I'm still the same guy.
Speaker D:I'm still wired the same way.
Speaker D:Like I want to test my limits physically and mentally.
Speaker D:I want to do more.
Speaker D:I want to run a hundred miles, but my body is not entirely agreeing with my mind.
Speaker D:So I'm just like, I'm a 55 year old guy whose body's been through quite a lot and is trying to figure out what is next.
Speaker D:So I don't know.
Speaker D:I'll take suggestions.
Speaker B:Wow, it's an incredible story.
Speaker B:Dying to Run is the name of the book.
Speaker B:Where can people find it?
Speaker D:Yeah.
Speaker D:So I'm proud to actually be not only the author but also the publisher of this book.
Speaker D:I'm a co owner of a small book publishing imprint called Eighty20 Publishing.
Speaker D:And so you can find my new book and also all of our stuff.
Speaker D:We're very endurance sports focused.
Speaker D: Books.com: Speaker D:We are distributed through Simon and Schuster.
Speaker D:You can also find the book which has print, digital and audio editions like wherever you normally buy your books.
Speaker D:You can find this one.
Speaker B:All right.
Speaker B:Matt Fitzgerald, I can't thank you enough for taking the time to chat with me today about your story.
Speaker B:It is an incredible one, not necessarily positive in a lot of ways.
Speaker B:But I am very glad that you have found somewhat some peace, some balance and certainly some incredible accomplishments through all of this.
Speaker B:And we hope that you will continue to find more of the R word, the recovery and more of a restoration of some kind of harmony in your life and allow you to get back to doing the kinds of things you love in the kinds of ways that you love doing them.
Speaker B:And if not, then at least to continue to push the boundaries and push the limits of what you're able to do, to find purpose and enjoyment.
Speaker B:Because it's a testament to what we're all able to do when we really focus and put our minds to it.
Speaker B:It's a testament to just your incredible resilience and perseverance.
Speaker B:So thank you for sharing that story with us here today.
Speaker B:I really appreciate it.
Speaker D:Really enjoyed talking to you.
Speaker C:Jeff.
Speaker E:Do all the things hi, I'm Sam Sankoff and I'm the proud editor of the Tridock Podcast.
Speaker E:The Tridock Podcast is produced by Jeff Sankoff, my dad, along with his amazing interns Cosette Rhodes and Sarah Lopez.
Speaker E:You can find the show notes for everything discussed on the show today, as well as archives of previous episodes@www.tridockpodcast.com.
Speaker E:Do you have questions about any of the issues discussed on this episode or do you have a question for consideration to be answered on a future episode?
Speaker E:Send Jeff an email@triodocloud.com if you are interested in coaching services, you really should.
Speaker E:Please visit tridoccoaching.com or visit lifesportcoaching.com where you can find a lot of information about Jeff and the services that he provides.
Speaker E:You can also follow Jeff on the Tridoc Podcast Facebook page.
Speaker E:Try Coaching coaching on Instagram and the Tridot Coaching YouTube channel and don't forget to join the Tridock Podcast private Facebook group.
Speaker E:Search for it and request to join today.
Speaker E:If you enjoy this podcast, I hope that you will consider leaving a rating and a review as well as subscribe to the show wherever you download it.
Speaker E:And of course, there's always the option of becoming a supporter of the podcast@patreon.com tridockpodcast the music heard at the beginning and at the end of the show is radio by empty hours and is used with permission.
Speaker E:This song and many others like it can be found at www.
Speaker E:Revverbnation.com where I hope that you will visit and give small independent bands a chance.
Speaker E:The Tridock Podcast will be back again soon with another medical question and answer and another interview with someone in the world of multisport.
Speaker E:Until then, train hard and train healthy.
